Fixed Limit vs. No Limit

[r3vbr]

Okay.. I'm sure someone already posted this at some point but I didnt find it using the search so here it goes.

I'd like to know the general opinion about wich is the best way to profit online.

I personally always played No Limit, and don't think I'll ever play Fixed (It's less psycological - wich is my specialty, and more a robotic math grind, at least that's what it seems to me).

But I know the majority (I guess about 80% of 2+2ers?) play fixed limit... I'd like to know WHY does people find Fixed so much better.. I make lots of profit at NL and it's certainly way more enjoyable to play.

Also, wich game do you people find harder to leard (become EV+ player)... and wich is harder to master?

Discuss.

[bdk3clash]

At least online, there's more upward mobility in limit games. Getting to the point where you can 4-table the Party 15/30 is probably a much more profitable situation than most NL players can aspire to online.

[r3vbr]

I know a guy with username "TillerMaN" that probably earns more than 25k a month playing 5 tables NL1000 at PokerStars.

Why would 15/30 Fixed be easier?

And how about the variance/swings of both games?

People say NL has bigger swings, but I believe it's the opposite, because you can control the game more. I've actually made a 26-day winning streak at NL100 PokerStars some months ago.

[uw_madtown]

For me, it is simple. Limit minimizes the opportunities for me to meltdown and really spew chips. It keeps me restrained -- I'm not trying to win all the money in one hand, I'm looking at the long term. It focuses me on "What is the best play?" rather than "How can I win all the money right NOW?" When I get in the latter mindset in NL cash games, I tend to blow significant chunks of my stack with weaker hands.

And, as bdkclash pointed out, it just offers more options and potential money. Besides the online comments, this is also true in B&M cardrooms -- I'm fairly sure that NL is spread pretty rarely outside of Vegas/Cali.

[Sponger15SB]

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I know a guy with username "TillerMaN" that probably earns more than 25k a month playing 5 tables NL1000 at PokerStars.

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there are tons more making that at 15/30 on party

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People say NL has bigger swings

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they are wrong

[fimbulwinter]

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And, as bdkclash pointed out, it just offers more options and potential money. Besides the online comments, this is also true in B&M cardrooms -- I'm fairly sure that NL is spread pretty rarely outside of Vegas/Cali.

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i have nothing significant to contribute, but is this true? i guess since i've always played in cali i just thought that NL would be spread pretty much everywhere. guess not?

[uw_madtown]

I'm fairly sure I've read somewhere (maybe Poker Essays III? not sure) that most casinos were, until recently, EXTREMELY hesitant to even spread NL games. The logic being that a game where someone's entire buy-in could be lost on the turn of one card would face accusations of cheating players/dealers.

My B&M experience is very little so I can't speak authoritatively on this. Although I know my local Native American casino (Potawatomi in Milwaukee) doesn't offer NL.

[bdk3clash]

"there are tons more making that ($25,000 per month) at 15/30 on party"

I doubt this is true. What are you basing this on?

[bdk3clash]

I think it's important to keep in mind that capped-buyin "no-limit" games are a very recent development and to an extent counter the massive hemmmoraging of cash that casinos supposedly want to prevent from happening to their poker customers.

[david050173]

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"there are tons more making that ($25,000 per month) at 15/30 on party"

I doubt this is true. What are you basing this on?

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Are you questioning if there are a lot of players or if someone at 15/30 can make that number? I agree there probably are not that many players who do it, but it seems to me that a good pro. should be close.

25K is ~833 BB. If you figure 200 hands/hr (4 or 5 tables) and 2 BB/100, you are looking 208 hours which is a lot for a month but not totally insane. Through in some rake rebate, 5-6 tabling, and a slightly higher win rate(2-3) and it seems a reasonable number.

[bdk3clash]

I agree that making $25,000 in a month of playing multiple 15/30 tables is "doable," and I'm sure there are people doing it. I just don't think it's likely that there are "tons" of people doing it.

[TylerD]

Thats 7 hours a day, every day 4-tabling at 2BB/100. I don't think many people are doing that.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Most people on 2+2 have been playing poker for a long time; longer than there has been internet poker. Prior to about 18 months ago, it was very hard to find a NL cash game at a B&M casino, so limit was the game to play. More experience = better EV.

[x2ski]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm fairly sure I've read somewhere (maybe Poker Essays III? not sure) that most casinos were, until recently, EXTREMELY hesitant to even spread NL games. The logic being that a game where someone's entire buy-in could be lost on the turn of one card would face accusations of cheating players/dealers.

My B&M experience is very little so I can't speak authoritatively on this. Although I know my local Native American casino (Potawatomi in Milwaukee) doesn't offer NL.

[/ QUOTE ]

Although Potowatomi doesn't offer NL, Oneida's Mason Street Casino in Green Bay does. I was surprised.

[spadeclub99]

NL is spread everywhere on the east coast nowadays, in NYC it seems to be the predominant form.

[r3vbr]

Doesnt this also aply to NL?

I think that NL requires more skill because there is a third variable (size of the bet) that is one more decision for the fish to make incorrectly. In Limit, I guess someone can make a good play BY MISTAKE, randomly picking one of 3 options (call raise fold). At NL it's very unlikely that a fish will make the best play.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Both limit & no limit are high skill games. Just different skills. Being able to manipulate pot odds, like you can in NL, is a skill, but it eliminates the need for other skills a limit player needs on the turn and river when it's harder to push someone off a hand.

The biggest skill difference in NL is the people-reading aspect, which is much more relelvant live than online.

Someone on this board once said that skill comes out in poker when it's time to make an important decision. If you think that the size of the important decision is the biggest factor, no limit requires the most skill. If you think the complexity of the important decision is the biggest factor, limit HE requires the most skill. If you think the frequency of the important decision is the biggest factor, high-low declare requires the most skill. If you think the most important factor is to have the biggest edge over poor players, Stud/8 is the game.

That's why poker's great. Many flavors to suit many tastes.