Need some ideas

I was at the final table of a tournament today...it started out limit and was now in the no-limit phase. Five people left...I'm the 4th stack. Blinds are T4000-8000. Tournament pays top 10 places. So i'm already in the money.


I'm in SB and it is folded to me. I have Jd2d. BB has T7000 in his stack, and I have T11500. So I can push him all in, but if I close I only have T500 left.


I thought for about 2 minutes and pushed all in. He looks at his cards for a long time and finally calls. He turns over Qc9d. Neither of us improve and he takes it down with Q-high, and I bust out two hands later with Jc8c UTG.


Looking back, the flop ended up being A34, with two diamonds. Would I have been better off calling preflop, and then pushing all in with the gutshot straight and flush draw? My thinking now is that pushing all in gives him less chance to throw away his hand? Given the flop, he is hard pressed to call, I think.


Or should I have just surrendered my SB and folded? Should I have just sat back and waited for the other players to bust each other out? I was afraid of being blinded away, so I figured I had to make a move, perhaps this was just the wrong time to do it.

You were right to be afraid of being blinded away, but you needed to be afraid of it earlier. With blinds at 4 and 8, you shouldn't be in the SB with only 15 total in your stack unless you just played and lost the last couple of hands.


You need to make your move a lot earlier, when you've got enough chips to get people to fold.


Also, he shouldn't even have thought about his hand. He should've called without even looking, having already put up over half his chips blind. That being the case, your better play would've been to limp in, hope he doesn't raise (and if he does, you call), and then bet the flop no matter what, hoping again that he folds.


Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

Nasty spot. You should have avoided to come into this situation in the first place by moving in while you still had a chance to take the pot down. Now, it doesn't really matter how you play the hand: If the BB is a halfway decent player then you cannot push him off his hand, no matter what.


I'd push in preflop, if there's the slightest chance that he'd incorrectly fold hands like 83o. Since it took him so long to call with a hand as good as Q9o, this is probably your best shot. Calling and betting out is another option, but only if he would call your preflop raise with any two. If you think that there's a very good chance that someone will drop out during the next 3 hands, then you might even consider folding (after all, you obviously folded your BB for better pot odds just one hand before).


cu


Ignatius

This, I'm sure, has been addressed on 2+2 numerous times before, but I've since forgotten. At what point do you feel that you should start playing more aggressively because of stack size? 5x big blind? More?


Also, does the same rule of thumb apply to Limit Hold'em, or does the factor change some from NL?


I'm curious as to what everyone thinks about this, but am hoping Fossilman gives his 2 cents worth since it's obvious that this is something he's adament about and I have a feeling is a reason why he tends to be quite successful.


Thanks


Chip

If I have less than 10x the big blind, I'm looking for decent steal opportunities. But, at that point, I'm still raising to 3x most of the time, and then betting the last 7x on the flop. If I get to about 8x or below, then I just raise all-in preflop. If I get below 4x, I almost never take the big blind without raising all-in in one of the prior hands.


In limit, it is a bit tougher, since you can't raise all-in. That being the case, you can't win immediately as easy as in NL, so you need to look for better opportunities. And the strength of your hand is much more important, since you will get played with more often, and can't win as often without a showdown.


In limit poker, 7x is a key number. If you raise preflop, and bet each round, it will cost you 7x. If you have less than this, then your opponent knows he can see the showdown for less than full price, and he is therefore more likely to go for it.


Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

You da man, Greg!

You da man, Greg!


I'll second that!(although probably not exactly the same words). A very interesting post.


Would Pot Limit(that we play mostly here in the UK) be played the same as your No Limit suggestion? Although as in Limit you obviously have the problem that you cannot raise all in.


Thanks in advance,


Peter