Japs, nips, orientals, etc.

[Sooga]

Everyone knows these words are derogatory, but why? I'm asian (Japanese), and I never did understand how 'jap' turned into a racial term.

To go back to some SAT analogies, isn't jap:japanese::jew:jewish? How did 'jap' come be derogatory and 'jew' not? Same argument with 'nip', which comes from the Japanese word for Japan, 'Nippon'. And up until recently, Asia was simply considered 'the orient'. How can 'oriental' be meant to be offensive?

And even other races.... like, 'the N-word' came from the word 'Negro', and I think it just mutated to 'nigger' because of some Southern accent or something. Is 'Negro' a bad term? I mean, I still call people 'black', and 'Negro' is just spanish for 'black'.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that there IS a social stigma associated with these types of terms, so I don't use these terms in my daily life, but I was curious as to how they were considered bad in the first place.

Some terms, like 'coon' or 'slope' or 'slant', are clearly meant to be offensive, and those I understand... but the negative connotations associated with the ones listed earlier just don't make much sense to me.

[Ogre]

Because of those people who are obsessed with being politicly correct don't like it.

[BeerMoney]

Stop worrying about it.

[YourFoxyGrandma]

Why are "s.hit" "f.uck" considered offensive?

[Sooga]

Beats me... but I don't know where those words originated from, so I can't even say if it came from some harmless word or not.

But the difference is, if you go out and use '[censored]' and '[censored]' all day, people will just assume you're some uneducated moron. But if you go out and use 'jap' and 'nigger' all day, people will assume you're an uneducated moron who also happens to be racist too.

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]

But if you go out and use 'jap' and 'nigger' all day, people will assume you're an uneducated moron who also happens to be racist too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Usually, rightly so. At least regarding the "racist" part.
I think that's exactly why these terms are considered so offensive: not because there's something inherently racist about them, but because the people who use them do so to express racist attitudes. Also because they were originally used by racists in order to demean and insult, and have a long history of being put to those uses.

[ThaSaltCracka]

they are offensive because of the connotion the word implies. Basically, racist people used these terms in a derogatory way, for the sole purpose of defaming a race of people.

[Sooga]

No, I understand WHY they're used, and what they mean when they are used, but I don't understand how it came to be. Like, who said, "Hmm, I want to offend the Japanese, but how will I do it... I know, I'll do it by shortening their name!" I dunno, maybe I'm not making any sense.

[ThaSaltCracka]

What I was saying was that a certain word was used over and over by racist people to offend a group, why they choose a word who knows, I believe you said it may have been because of a bastardization of a word, which is possible. I guess I don't have an answer for you.

[Popinjay]

Words like jap and nigger have been intended as highly demeaning words for so long that that intent has been absorbed into the meaning of the word.

[Alobar]

I think in the case of Jap and Nip, alot of it had to do with world war 2. Thats what the allies called the enemy. Like you said, simply because it was shortened for of the name of their country. Several million people using the word "jap" when trying to kill you, I guess eventually it turns intoa word you dont want to hear.

[theantelope]

Actually, many jewish people are offended by non-jewish people using the term 'jew,' and believe it almost always carries negative connotations.

[Duke]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, many jewish people are offended by non-jewish people using the term 'jew,' and believe it almost always carries negative connotations.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the thing. With the "right" target, it doesn't matter what you say. Any term that identifies what race they are will be considered offensive. Say the word "black" in mixed company and everyone gets all worked up about it, at least to the point of being uneasy.

The only thing I can think of is that the people who are offended by it are either PC leftist morons with nothing better to worry about, and people of the race who are devoid of any self-confidence, and partially blame it on their minority/race/group status.

People who aren't idiots aren't usually offended by much, if anything at all.

~D

[andyfox]

Words have no meaning except for their usage. "Nip" and "Jap" are meant to be derogatory and are understood as such by both the person who uses the words and his intended target. Th fact that the words derive from other non-derogatory words is irrelevant. The derogatory word "hebe" derives from the non-derogatory "Hebrew."

As for "oriental," I believe its changed perception has to do with the changed perception of the "Orient" from a real place to a place that existed largely in westerners' imaginations (Orientalism).

[theantelope]

Would you go as far as to say that black people who are offended by the term "nigger" are either leftist PC morons or devoid of self-confidence? What about white people that are offended by the term?

[Duke]

[ QUOTE ]
Words like jap and nigger have been intended as highly demeaning words for so long that that intent has been absorbed into the meaning of the word.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's where I'm confused. How can any term, no matter what it is, be demeaning if its primary intent is to point out the race/religion/whatever of the person it's used in reference to? Is there something wrong with being a *WHATEVER*? Certainly not. To be offended, wouldn't the person being offended think that there is something wrong with being a *WHATEVER*? Whether it's the person being referred to, or the hippy who doesn't like that word, whoever is offended must think it's unfortunate/terrible to be plagued by being such an inferior human being, a *WHATEVER*.

That's why all those terms are meaningless to me, because I never thought there was anything wrong with being whatever you are.

I actually like dropping slurs, since every single person who is uncomfortable with them is a racist. Maybe not in their actions, but deep down they think there's something wrong with people who are members of a certain group. "Oh, don't embarass him by pointing out that he's black, or that he's down with Moses, or that he is proficient at dromedary locomotion." Those are the real racists.

~D

[Duke]

[ QUOTE ]
Would you go as far as to say that black people who are offended by the term "nigger" are either leftist PC morons or devoid of self-confidence? What about white people that are offended by the term?

[/ QUOTE ]

See my next post. I think I cover that. They're either white PC leftist morons, or de facto racist.

~D

[theantelope]

But what about the black people who are offended? De facto racist?

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
But what about the black people who are offended? De facto racist?

[/ QUOTE ]I think some times black people just like acting like they are offended.

[Gamblor]

The derogatory word "hebe" derives from the non-derogatory "Hebrew."

Heeb is derogatory? Tell that to this guy. (http://headheeb.blogmosis.com/)

[theantelope]

This certainly may be the case--but I'm curious about Duke's analysis of those that actually are offended.

[M2d]

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8420/headline55.jpg
Just wondering, what generation are you and where is your family from?

[Josh W]

Duke -

I cannot completely verify that this is true, but in the case of "Nigger", I think that there is more at work.

I was told that that word, before the days of slavery, was a slang term for "lazy person". As such, slave owners (and other racist people back in the day), would refer to their slaves as such, to insult them. Laziness, as all of us poker players know, was a sin.

Now, the term has obviously been divorced from it's roots. But by referring to a person as a nigger, you are still saying that they are lazy (intentional or not).

Now, with a word like "Jap", of course when you use it, everybody knows that you are referring to a person of Japanese decent. And, like you, am thusly confused as to **why** it's offensive (the fact that it **is** offensive, though, is enough reason for me to not use it).

But with "Nigger", you are implying that the person is lazy (which is inherently offensive). Moreover, the mere use of the word perpetuates an inaccurate stereotype. Hence, the offensiveness cannot be removed from the word, unlike "Jap".

I hope that makes sense.

Josh

[Josh W]

When I moved to the LA area 8 years ago, my cousins who lived down here told me that "It's 'Asian', not 'Oriental'". I had it in my brain, but didn't know why.

Now, I find it kinda ironic, cuz a poker buddy of mine, L, who is Asian, is the ONLY person I know in LA who refers to people as "Oriental", or, sometimes "Ornamental".

I've been told that "Oriental" refers to inanimate objects...rugs, art, food, etc. But "Asian" is to be used for people. Anybody know why this is? Why is it okay to say that art is from the Orient, but not people, since, afterall, the art came from the people.

Not a big deal....just a cracker being curious...

Josh

[BusterStacks]

Yea, I don't really give much consideration to racist terms, I use them all with regularity, including the N-Bomb. Am I an uneducated racist? Absolutely not. I just think people take stuff way too seriously these days, especially racism.

[Diplomat]

[ QUOTE ]

That's where I'm confused. How can any term, no matter what it is, be demeaning if its primary intent is to point out the race/religion/whatever of the person it's used in reference to?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's just the point. If you have a sufficient vocabulary, usage will often beyond mere identification.

-Diplomat

[Josh W]

No idea in the world why you responded to me, asking if you are an uneducated racist.

If I implied that you are, rest assured that I would never make such an accusation without even knowing who you are.

Josh

[BusterStacks]

i just reply to the last post in the thread.

[theantelope]

Do you also hit people in the head with hammers because they take bodily injury too seriously? If you don't think they take bodily injury too seriously: If you did think they take bodily injury too seriously, would you hit them in the head with hammers?

[Sooga]

1.5th generation, I guess... my mom was born here, my dad in Japan.... An interesting little sidenote is that my grandparents met at a concentration camp.

The whole reason I started this thread at all is I remember growing up my parents were really sensitive about 'jap' and 'nip', but as I grew older, I couldn't understand how those words started to mean something offensive in the first place.

[BusterStacks]

Nope, I just say whatever I want because if you can get offended by what someone says to you, you don't stand much chance of living a happy life. I also understand context, for example when I call someone a f-a-g I don't mean they are a homosexual.

[theantelope]

So you take it upon yourself to make their lives less happy?

[BusterStacks]

No, I take it upon myself to allow them exposure to certain things in hopes of desensitization. Most racist words don't carry nearly (if any) the weight of their original meaning.

Edited: Furthermore, I do not have the ability to affect people's happiness with life, self-esteem, identity, etc. Those attributes are solely the responsibilty of one's self.

[JimRivett]

Perhaps if you and your family experienced what my wife and her family experienced during the last war, you may have a better understanding why Japanese American people find that word so insulting. You see my wife was born in one of the "camps", both her parents were born in California, that makes them American, yet they were rounded up, forced to sell all their possessions for pennys on the dollar and relocated to "camps" in the desert.

My wife also had an uncle who was so proud of being an American that he enlisted in the US Army, and was sent to fight in the European campaign. He made the ultimate sacrifice for his country while attemping to land on an Italian beach. This happened while his parents, brothers and sisters were being interned in a desert "camp".

Despite this injustice, I have never heard my wife or any of her family complain about their treatment during this time.

If you should vist the Japanese American museum in Los Angeles (Japanese Town), you may gain an understanding of what those people went through, and perhaps then you can relate to why they take offense to that word, and its connotation.

Jim

[BusterStacks]

Well, you know, obviously that is horrible and I wouldn't make any type of excuse for it, but the fact of the matter is, I had no part in that, and neither did you. I don't feel like words are the same as actions, is my point. I wasn't trying to give the impression that I walk around all day spewing racial slurs, but I'm also not going to take responsibility for the actions of previous generations. Nor am I going to afford you any greater sensitivity based on your relatives.

[Sooga]

no no, as I said before, I understand the 'what' and the 'why' when it comes to the word, but I was curious as to the 'how' it came about. My grandparents also had their belongings taken from them, and they've told me all they had to go through during that time. It just seems to me the word 'jap' is merely just short for 'japanese', and seems so arbitrary a 'racist slur' of a word.

[theantelope]

I see. It's all about desensitizing them. I wonder how much perceived "racism" in this world results from people trying to make the world a better place, as that seems to be your motivation. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Anyway, it's complete B.S. to say that you can't positively affect others' happiness, self-esteem, or identity. Think about it for..oh, say, half a second, and you'll realize how completely wrong your assertion is. (One tiny example that shows that you don't really believe your claim in this regard: I thought you said you were desensitizing them to the racist remarks?)

But even if you don't want to "make the world a better place," so you don't make any positive efforts to make others happy (which, believe me, I believe is a defensible position to take, and I'm not disagreeing with it in this particular post), I still can't see how you can use your perceived inability to make others more happy to justify making them less happy.

Let's say someone has a disease that makes them particularly sensitive to touch. Let's say it's completley beyond your power to cure them, so no matter what you do, they'll go through life like this. Is it "ok" for you to touch them, even though they don't want you to and it causes them pain?

[Alobar]

excellent post duke

[BusterStacks]

your analogies are completely unrelated, in both posts. Self-esteem is determined by your SELF. That's it. Done deal. You're trying to make a comparison between physical pain, which is universal, and mental "pain" which is subjective.

[theantelope]

That's wrong. Done deal.

Don't you even see the contradictions inherent in your various statements?

[BusterStacks]

No, I don't. And you have yet to make any constructive points.

[RocketManJames]

Can't we just see words as words?

The knight could feel the wind nip at his chest. Why? There was a chink in his armor. But, the king was niggardly and did not allocate any gold or jewels to fix it. To top it off, there was a lot of gook on his helm when he was thrown off his horse and did a back flip into the mud a while back. If only the doo-wop had been invented he might have frequented the local honky-tonk and been more limber. It didn't matter anyway... he simply cleaned his helm, and it was spick and span before he knew it.

-RMJ

PS: I am asian, so please don't attack me for being such a racist.

[blackaces13]

[ QUOTE ]
Yea, I don't really give much consideration to racist terms, I use them all with regularity, including the N-Bomb.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I wasn't trying to give the impression that I walk around all day spewing racial slurs

[/ QUOTE ]

[BusterStacks]

Good job brockton, still two different things. We can however conclude that you know how to click "Quote".

[daryn]

duke posts g00t

[Lazymeatball]

I thought this thread would have hot asian nipples, especially when I saw daryn had replied. How dissapointed I was to find another politically correct thread.

Time to fix this thread:
http://www.extrememodelfest.com/models/heather/102.jpg

[jakethebake]

Where the term "nip" really came from?
[ QUOTE ]
I thought this thread would have hot asian nipples, especially when I saw daryn had replied. How dissapointed I was to find another politically correct thread.

Time to fix this thread:
http://www.extrememodelfest.com/models/heather/102.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

[jakethebake]

I was listening to talk radio this weekend, and there was an interview with a local Black Muslim leader. I was very suprised at how down to Earth he is, I guess because I usually only hear the more militant, racist people that the media plays up. He said he believes the biggest problem in the world today is how thin-skinned everyone has become, and that people just get so incensed over words. He said a lot of people in his congregation (or whatever they call them) were insulted at people telling them Merry Christmas. He told them Christmas is his favorite time of year, and to accept the good tidings in the spirit in which they were offered. He puts money in Santa's Salvation Army bucket because he believes in the good work it can do. I didn't get to hear the whole interview, but what I did sounded very nice.

[JimRivett]

Nor am I going to afford you any greater sensitivity based on your relatives.

Based upon some of your responses in this thread I wouldn't expect anything less.

Jim

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't feel like words are the same as actions, is my point. I wasn't trying to give the impression that I walk around all day spewing racial slurs, but I'm also not going to take responsibility for the actions of previous generations. Nor am I going to afford you any greater sensitivity based on your relatives.

[/ QUOTE ]
Good post.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Furthermore, I do not have the ability to affect people's happiness with life, self-esteem, identity, etc. Those attributes are solely the responsibilty of one's self.

[/ QUOTE ]
Good post.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Yea, I don't really give much consideration to racist terms, I use them all with regularity, including the N-Bomb. Am I an uneducated racist? Absolutely not. I just think people take stuff way too seriously these days, especially racism.

[/ QUOTE ]
I grew up with the words, but no longer use them. They're not nice words to use, and I don't want my kids to grow up hearing me use them. There are just better ways to call people ass[/b]holes, like calling them "ass[/b]holes" that avoid race. Still, it's up the those hearing the words to ignore them. Words only effect you if you let them.

[fnord_too]

I once heard an interview on NPR by the son of the founder of the Nation of Islam. He had walked away from his father's organization because of the corruption. I am not a religious person (though I guess that depneds on definition), but this was a guy worthy of a lot of respect. Same thing, very down to earth, very focussed on message and not form (i.e. he did not see any difference in "good" people, regardless of their religion). I think these people exist in all religions, it's nice when they are in a position to guide others.

[astroglide]

interesting you mention jap and jew. some people assume another definition of 'jap'. my girlfriend is a jew from westchester/scarsdale new york, and she got confused by mixed looks all the time at campus at wash u here in st louis (large asian attendance) when using the word to describe snotty rich jewish girls...jewish american princesses (japs).

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
Yea, I don't really give much consideration to racist terms, I use them all with regularity, including the N-Bomb. Am I an uneducated racist? Absolutely not. I just think people take stuff way too seriously these days, especially racism.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's easy to be cavalier about racism if you've been on the easy side of the fence.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yea, I don't really give much consideration to racist terms, I use them all with regularity, including the N-Bomb. Am I an uneducated racist? Absolutely not. I just think people take stuff way too seriously these days, especially racism.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's easy to be cavalier about racism if you've been on the easy side of the fence.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is such a dumb excuse for getting worked up over this stuff. It's really laughable. I'd bet the vast majority of blacks (for example) have never not gotten a job or anything else meaningful because of their color (and no I can't quote you statistics, and I'm not going to search the net for any). They've never "suffered" because of racism. I find it interesting also that it's the younger people, not those from a generation may have actually suffered, that get worked up the most. They therefore have no real reason to get worked up over a simple word, even if it's used in a very nasty manner. People of all colors just need to get the damn chips off their shoulders.

[JimRivett]

Prior to the second world war it was a different place and a different time and while this word may have been in the vernacular the negative connotations it had were perhaps less than they are today. At the outbreak of WWII the word took on a whole new meaning, it was used to try to demean an entire race of people regardless of their country of origin or the place they called "home".

During this time, this word was used by both the press and the government of this country as a propaganda device in an attempt to make Japanese people somehow less human.

At the conclusion of the war, and once those interned in the "camps" were allowed to rejoin society again, it's my guess that some Japanese Americans got together and decided to lobby against such an atrocity ever happening again. The fact that this word is now only spoken by the ignorant is a reflection of the success of their lobbing.

As is the case with any slur, it is only uttered out of ignorance or frustration and is an attempt to make the individual delivering the word feel somehow better or superior to the person who is being addressed.

Jim

[jakethebake]

To which word are you referring? Until very recently, I heard the word Oriental used frequently to describe people, and it was never derogatory. Same with Jap. Nip was always considered derogatory.
[ QUOTE ]
Prior to the second world war it was a different place and a different time and while this word may have been in the vernacular the negative connotations it had were perhaps less than they are today. At the outbreak of WWII the word took on a whole new meaning, it was used to try to demean an entire race of people regardless of their country of origin or the place they called "home".

During this time, this word was used by both the press and the government of this country as a propaganda device in an attempt to make Japanese people somehow less human.

At the conclusion of the war, and once those interned in the "camps" were allowed to rejoin society again, it's my guess that some Japanese Americans got together and decided to lobby against such an atrocity ever happening again. The fact that this word is now only spoken by the ignorant is a reflection of the success of their lobbing.

As is the case with any slur, it is only uttered out of ignorance or frustration and is an attempt to make the individual delivering the word feel somehow better or superior to the person who is being addressed.

Jim

[/ QUOTE ]

[Victor]

Personally, I like to use the term "zontals."

Its not derogatory, more affectionate.

[jakethebake]

When I was in Okinawa, they sold Nips crackers in the vending machines. I always wondered what marketing genius at Nabisco failed to recognize that they needed a different name over there. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[M2d]

Kinda like the Nova fiasco in Mexico?

anyway, "nip" is a western slur, and probably not recognized as much in Japan. Also, Okinawans generally take pride in not being Japanese, and likely wouldn't be offended. Thirdly, nips are a foul tasting snack. Nips that sit around in vending machines for months at a time are likely even worse.

[sfer]

I wrote:

[ QUOTE ]
It's easy to be cavalier about racism if you've been on the easy side of the fence.

[/ QUOTE ]

You wrote:
[ QUOTE ]

This is such a dumb excuse for getting worked up over this stuff. It's really laughable. I'd bet the vast majority of blacks (for example) have never not gotten a job or anything else meaningful because of their color (and no I can't quote you statistics, and I'm not going to search the net for any). They've never "suffered" because of racism. I find it interesting also that it's the younger people, not those from a generation may have actually suffered, that get worked up the most. They therefore have no real reason to get worked up over a simple word, even if it's used in a very nasty manner. People of all colors just need to get the damn chips off their shoulders.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who sounds like they have a chip on their shoulder?

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
anyway, "nip" is a western slur, and probably not recognized as much in Japan. Also, Okinawans generally take pride in not being Japanese, and likely wouldn't be offended. Thirdly, nips are a foul tasting snack. Nips that sit around in vending machines for months at a time are likely even worse.

[/ QUOTE ]
All that is somewhat true. Not like "n*****" here but they do recognize nip as derogatory. And there are plenty of Japanese on Okinawa. Regardless, selling them there is just kind of a weird thing to do.

[BusterStacks]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yea, I don't really give much consideration to racist terms, I use them all with regularity, including the N-Bomb. Am I an uneducated racist? Absolutely not. I just think people take stuff way too seriously these days, especially racism.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's easy to be cavalier about racism if you've been on the easy side of the fence.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, I'm sure on the easy side of the fence! Whereas virtually all other forms of racism are strict tabboo and will get you into all kinds of trouble, crapping on white guys in comedy, in the media, in day to day life is accepted and laughable. Turn on def comedy jam and tell me who is the butt of most jokes. Somehow thats ok because white people "have it coming", even though I personally have not done anything to deserve it.

I just think it's funny how everything is so racist against minorites, but at the end of the day, we don't want an end to racism, we want to laugh at white people! And by "we" I mean everyone. Yeah, it's time to call in Jesse Jackson if a black person is portrayed in a subservient role in a TV show, but there's no problem making Tim "the toolman" Taylor a stupid white male. Nobody likes to say it though because you can't be "proud to be white" like you can if you're black, thus even taking a stand against that type of thing would get you labeled a racist.

Seriously, line up 5 35-year-old males of different races, and tell me which one you could make fun of in front of people... Yep, the white guy. That's ok though right? That's not really racism, is it? Well, at least it's not against people with dark skin!

[M2d]

[ QUOTE ]
That's why all those terms are meaningless to me, because I never thought there was anything wrong with being whatever you are.

[/ QUOTE ]

When those words became popular, they were used to do the exact opposite of what you describe. They were used to classify entire races of people based solely on a single charactaristic. To dehumanize them in order to justify atrocities committed against them. When the JA's were put into internment camps in WWII, it wasn't a race that lost property; it was the corner grocer who lost his store and stock. It was the farmer who lost his land. It was the family across the street that was split up. If you told people that Yoshi had his car confiscated, Jim had his land taken away and Mary who was split from her family, you would have inserted a human element into the process that would have been much more difficult to swallow. By saying that the Japs were put away, though, you take the human element out of the process and make it much more palatable.

Time does heal, to some extent, but, unless the healing occurs on both side, the wound will never be completely clean. As a Japanese American, I can ignore slurs as often as they are thrown at me. However, I can not control the malice with which they are uttered. A person who calls me a Jap may not be a racist, but he or she is unknowingly perpetuating a term that connotes hatred, fear and spite.

[M2d]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, it's time to call in Jesse Jackson if a black person is portrayed in a subservient role in a TV show, but there's no problem making Tim "the toolman" Taylor a stupid white male.

[/ QUOTE ]
that show was based on his standup routine that he developed by himself. So, he's racist against himself?

[ThaSaltCracka]

good post.


Only in America could a movie be made called "White Men Can't Jump", and no one says a thing.

Change that to "Black Men Liked Fried Chicken" and what do you have? The hammer crashing down on that film makers nuts, the studios nuts, the distributors nuts, and the movie theaters that play it nuts.

[M2d]

That may be true, but those crackers still taste like @$$. the real question is: What marketing genius decided to take some stale crackers, coat them in some sort of cheese like product, and sell them to the adoring public? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Who sounds like they have a chip on their shoulder?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yet another dumb statement. Your usual one-liner answers aren't working today. Arguing a point doesn't mean one has a chip on his shoulder.

[BusterStacks]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, it's time to call in Jesse Jackson if a black person is portrayed in a subservient role in a TV show, but there's no problem making Tim "the toolman" Taylor a stupid white male.

[/ QUOTE ]
that show was based on his standup routine that he developed by himself. So, he's racist against himself?

[/ QUOTE ]

You sure are missing the point here...

[M2d]

Bad example, imo. the movie was about confronting stereotypes and reverse racism. the title was ironic and disproven in the script when he did make the dunk.

[andyfox]

When flying on EVA airways, I noticed that the toothpaste they give you in the freshen-up pack was called "White Men." I assumed it was referring to the tooth-whitening ingredients in the paste.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Bad example, imo. the movie was about confronting stereotypes and reverse racism. the title was ironic and disproven in the script when he did make the dunk.

[/ QUOTE ]
Even if the movie confronted the stereotype, etc. etc. You couldn't make a movie called Black Men Like Fried Chicken. Unless of course Spike Lee made it. That would be o.k. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
Bad example, imo. the movie was about confronting stereotypes and reverse racism. the title was ironic and disproven in the script when he did make the dunk.

[/ QUOTE ]
so what, not only is that title racist, but because of the movie, people think its true and/or funny to say. I don't know how many times I have heard NBA players comment on a white player saying something like "Yeah he got up really high, especially for a white boy".

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
When flying on EVA airways, I noticed that the toothpaste they give you in the freshen-up pack was called "White Men." I assumed it was referring to the tooth-whitening ingredients in the paste.

[/ QUOTE ]
So you've had white men in your mouth? /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[M2d]

as toothpaste is toxic when ingested, I assume Andy spit and did not swallow.

[andyfox]

There is a history in this country of racism. That history involves the degradation and poor treatment of black people by white people. So there is a greater sensitivity about negatively steroptying blacks than about whites.

Nobody (except for you, apparently) thought it was a problem that Tim Taylor was white because he was "stupid." (Which, by the way, he was not. He was unsophisticated and ignorant, but the show was about how he learned to be a better and more sensitive person as he became less ignorant about the ways of the world.) There is a history in our country of minstrelsy, blackface, slavery, Jim Crow, and blacks being protrayed as lazy and stupid and contemptible because they were black. That's why the sensitivity.

It's not uncommon for groups that are discriminated against (e.g., blacks, Jews, women) to feel a comraderie with others members of the discriminated group and, in the face of the dominant culture telling them both explicitly and implicitly that they're inferior, to feel a certain pride in their group membership.

[BusterStacks]

2 things:

1) White people are not the dominant population in many places. California for instance.

2) Black face, Jim Crow, Etc... I had nothing to do with that, and neither did the people who claim to be sensitive about it. If you didn't live it, you don't get to claim it.

[sfer]

Ask any of the 2+2ers who know me. I'd make fun of all of them.

[sfer]

I didn't get worked up in my post. You did in yours, and then you implied I have a chip on my shoulder. I do, but it has nothing to do with race.

[jakethebake]

Thanks for the history lesson, andy. I wasn't aware that there had once been negative stereotyping of blacks. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif
I think the point is that it's not my responsibility, or anyone else's to cater to the sensitivities of others. Now as a decent person, I don't go around calling people names, especially racist ones. But if I so choose, that should be my right. It's up to each of us not to let idiot name callers get the better of us.
[ QUOTE ]
There is a history in this country of racism. That history involves the degradation and poor treatment of black people by white people. So there is a greater sensitivity about negatively steroptying blacks than about whites.

Nobody (except for you, apparently) thought it was a problem that Tim Taylor was white because he was "stupid." (Which, by the way, he was not. He was unsophisticated and ignorant, but the show was about how he learned to be a better and more sensitive person as he became less ignorant about the ways of the world.) There is a history in our country of minstrelsy, blackface, slavery, Jim Crow, and blacks being protrayed as lazy and stupid and contemptible because they were black. That's why the sensitivity.

It's not uncommon for groups that are discriminated against (e.g., blacks, Jews, women) to feel a comraderie with others members of the discriminated group and, in the face of the dominant culture telling them both explicitly and implicitly that they're inferior, to feel a certain pride in their group membership.

[/ QUOTE ]

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't get worked up in my post. You did in yours, and then you implied I have a chip on my shoulder.

[/ QUOTE ] I didn't get worked up. I simply argued my point. And I wasn't implying you have a chip on your shoulder. I was implying that people that are overly sensitive to being called names do.

[ QUOTE ]
I do, but it has nothing to do with race.

[/ QUOTE ]
Nice. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
2) Black face, Jim Crow, Etc... I had nothing to do with that, and neither did the people who claim to be sensitive about it. If you didn't live it, you don't get to claim it.

[/ QUOTE ] Good point, but unfortunately this is easier said then done. Also, in the back of most blacks minds, is a fear that these laws may come back. Whether or not that is a justifiable concern is debateable, but it is still there none the less.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2) Black face, Jim Crow, Etc... I had nothing to do with that, and neither did the people who claim to be sensitive about it. If you didn't live it, you don't get to claim it.

[/ QUOTE ] Good point, but unfortunately this is easier said then done.

[/ QUOTE ]
What is? I don't get what you're saying, TSC.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, in the back of most blacks minds, is a fear that these laws may come back. Whether or not that is a justifiable concern is debateable, but it is still there none the less.

[/ QUOTE ]
If they choose to go through life in fear of something as idiotic as this, then it's their problem. And I'm not going to cater to anything this stupid.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
What is? I don't get what you're saying, TSC.


[/ QUOTE ] I am saying its a lot easier to tell blacks to get over past racism, then it is for them to actually get over it.


[ QUOTE ]
If they choose to go through life in fear of something as idiotic as this, then it's their problem. And I'm not going to cater to anything this stupid.

[/ QUOTE ] Its not so much they fear the laws coming back, rather they fear that sentiment may come back. I am not sure if anyone has really experienced racism, but I have, but only once though. It made me really mad, and I couldn't imagine doing that to someone else.

I agree with a lot of what you and Bustersacks are saying though.

[DeezNuts]

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I just think it's funny how everything is so racist against minorites, but at the end of the day, we don't want an end to racism, we want to laugh at white people

[/ QUOTE ]

I was with you on all your other posts on reducing the effect of racist words and becoming less sensitive until you started in on the "Plight of the White Man" rant that is just utterly ridiculous.

DN

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I just think it's funny how everything is so racist against minorites, but at the end of the day, we don't want an end to racism, we want to laugh at white people

[/ QUOTE ]
I was with you on all your other posts on reducing the effect of racist words and becoming less sensitive until you started in on the "Plight of the White Man" rant that is just utterly ridiculous.

DN

[/ QUOTE ]
Its is ridiculous to call it a plight, because it most certainly is not, but if people want racism to stop, then they need to realize that making fun of white people is just as racist as making fun of minorities.

[DeezNuts]

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Asia was simply considered 'the orient'. How can 'oriental' be meant to be offensive?

[/ QUOTE ]

From what I understand, it is because "orient" means "east" implying that Europe was the center of the world, and Asia merely on its fringes(but since the world was considered flat, it was all relative to themselves?). I believe this also meant that Europeans deemed themselves "superior" to Asians. It soon came to be derogatory and old-fashioned, much as the word "negro" has become.

I may just be talking out of my ass, but this is how I remember it explained to me long ago.

DN

[tripdad]

[ QUOTE ]
no no, as I said before, I understand the 'what' and the 'why' when it comes to the word, but I was curious as to the 'how' it came about.

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe it came about as a racist term just for being short. for example, in the course of conversation, to call someone a "slant eyed, slope headed, rice eating, war losing zipperhead" just doesn't roll of one's tongue. so, you just shorten it to "jap", or "nip".

cheers!

[Lazymeatball]

zipperhead? never heard that one, does it have anything to do with the HQ for YKK, that little logo you see on every zipper you are wearing right now, being in Japan?

Or is it something to do with the coats they wore in WW2?

[AncientPC]

[ QUOTE ]
When flying on EVA airways, I noticed that the toothpaste they give you in the freshen-up pack was called "White Men." I assumed it was referring to the tooth-whitening ingredients in the paste.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this was on a flight in / out of Asia I think I know the toothpaste you're talking about.

It used to be called "Black Man Toothpaste" based on the fact that a black's teeth appeared brighter because of their skin color. However that was changed to be more PC into "White Man Toothpaste".

[Hack]

Jew can be derogatory when used some ways. Context is what matters.

If an anti-semite says something like, "there's some Jew thing going on today", then I'm going to take it as anti-semitic. If someone I know isn't anti-semitic uses that word then I'm going to be a little suspicious.

It's not so much the words that matter- what matters is the connotation behind the words used, and who the person speaking the words is.

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]

This is such a dumb excuse for getting worked up over this stuff. It's really laughable. I'd bet the vast majority of blacks (for example) have never not gotten a job or anything else meaningful because of their color (and no I can't quote you statistics, and I'm not going to search the net for any). They've never "suffered" because of racism. I find it interesting also that it's the younger people, not those from a generation may have actually suffered, that get worked up the most. They therefore have no real reason to get worked up over a simple word, even if it's used in a very nasty manner. People of all colors just need to get the damn chips off their shoulders.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have absolutely no clue what it's like to walk in the shoes of a person of color. I'm fairly successful, and can fairly honestly say I've never been denied a job because of my race, but just in day-to-day activities it sucks getting treated differently than others just because of your color.

While this might not be "meaningful" to you because it's not a job, or a home or anything with any tangible value, it's still a problem in our society. And while I no longer let it affect me, it's sad that people can dismiss racism as something to be swept under the rug.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

This is such a dumb excuse for getting worked up over this stuff. It's really laughable. I'd bet the vast majority of blacks (for example) have never not gotten a job or anything else meaningful because of their color (and no I can't quote you statistics, and I'm not going to search the net for any). They've never "suffered" because of racism. I find it interesting also that it's the younger people, not those from a generation may have actually suffered, that get worked up the most. They therefore have no real reason to get worked up over a simple word, even if it's used in a very nasty manner. People of all colors just need to get the damn chips off their shoulders.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have absolutely no clue what it's like to walk in the shoes of a person of color. I'm fairly successful, and can fairly honestly say I've never been denied a job because of my race, but just in day-to-day activities it sucks getting treated differently than others just because of your color.

While this might not be "meaningful" to you because it's not a job, or a home or anything with any tangible value, it's still a problem in our society. And while I no longer let it affect me, it's sad that people can dismiss racism as something to be swept under the rug.

[/ QUOTE ]
You can't change the way bigots feel or think so I'll tell you the same thing I tell my kid about things he can't control...Stop whining.

[daryn]

people of color. hahahahhaha.. in other words everyone in the world except whitey.