Party 3/6: Pushing hard with AKo...

[chesspain]

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP3 is loose-aggressive preflop, more passive postflop. No read on the Button, who had only been here a couple of orbits. BB hadn't been around much longer, but already seemed to be somewhat LAGish, at least preflop. However, I didn't have a good read on his post-flop play.

Preflop: chesspain is SB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">chesspain 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB caps</font>, MP3 folds, Button folds, chesspain calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
chesspain checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, chesspain calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
chesspain checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">chesspain raises</font>, BB calls.

River: (10.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">chesspain bets</font>...

Is this a good attempt to try to get my opponent to lay down AK (or even TT/JJ?)? Or is this just chip spewery?

[sthief09]

definitely chip spewery. given all that dead money and the fact that he's probably a loose raiser, I wouldn't mind calling down. I think trying to get him to fold is pointless, since (1) when you're wrong you're probably drawing thin and putting in 3 BB, and (2) even when you're right, there's no guarantee AK folds. nothing pisses me off more than when I put someone on a hand, make a move to push him off the hand, and he still calls and showed me what I put him on. it's a good way to burn a ton of chips

EDIT: admittedly, you only did put in 1 extra BB. I don't know if that BB is small enough for it to be worth making a move that'll with only if he has AK AND folds AK to your move.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
when you're wrong you're probably drawing thin and putting in 3 BB...

[/ QUOTE ]

I was planning to fold to a turn three-bet...or to a river raise.

[Joe Tall]

You really have to know your opponent to make him lay one down here. JJ/TT and the like aren't laying down often enough here. I think I call down, given your reads and the size of the pot.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[scrub]

I don't think you can get him to lay down any PP on this board. The ones that aren't sets are overpairs or have "draws".

I'd rather have him keep betting when he has dominated overcards to make up for the times he has a pair since I think he folds a better hand approximately never here.

scrub

[Shillx]

The villian is never folding TT+ on the river. Your line is aggressive and risky, but I think that you will probably lose 1 more bet (as opposed to calling down) far more often then you will get AK to fold on the river (to make this play worth it). Pot is too big to fold anytime IMO, so I'm just calling down here.

Brad

[sthief09]

well, if he 3-bet the turn, you've only put in 2 BB, but you lost out on a chance to possibly draw to 3 outs. if he raises the river you've put in 3 BB

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
well, if he 3-bet the turn, you've only put in 2 BB, but you lost out on a chance to possibly draw to 3 outs. if he raises the river you've put in 3 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

So after I checkraised the turn, should I have just planned to checkcall the river, rather than betting out and planning to fold to a raise?

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
So after I checkraised the turn, should I have just planned to checkcall the river, rather than betting out and planning to fold to a raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't a situation where you should be looking for a way to fold your hand (or put more money, for that matter). Any line that could cause you to fold or to pay more when he has a pair is worse than check/calling.

scrub

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
You really have to know your opponent to make him lay one down here. JJ/TT and the like aren't laying down often enough here. I think I call down, given your reads and the size of the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Joe, you and the others have suggested that I call this down. However, I'm only receiving approx. 4:1 to call down if he fires again on the river, and I'm only chopping with another AK. Consequently, are the odds really good enough for me to be passively calling down unimproved against a PF capper, even if he seemed somewhat LAGish?

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm only receiving approx. 4:1 to call down if he fires again on the river, and I'm only chopping with another AK. Consequently, are the odds really good enough for me to be passively calling down unimproved against a PF capper, even if he seemed somewhat LAGish?


[/ QUOTE ]

So the odds are good enough to spew chips in this size pot? Sounds like an arguement to fold the turn.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
Joe, you and the others have suggested that I call this down. However, I'm only receiving approx. 4:1 to call down if he fires again on the river, and I'm only chopping with another AK. Consequently, are the odds really good enough for me to be passively calling down unimproved against a PF capper, even if he seemed somewhat LAGish?

[/ QUOTE ]

I routinely cap preflop with worse than AK on steal raises when I think the blind is capable of playing back light.

I see AQ-A9s, KQ, or something weird here when I call down often enough that I think it's worth calling down (and I did when I played 3/6 for 10,000 hands in October, too). People do weird stuff when stealing and when defending--it's a low trust environment.

You can't safely fold and there's little utility to bluffing, so you're hoping that your opponent is bluffing (or thinks a holding like AQs is good). So don't do anything to make him stop bluffing--once you decide that you shouldn't fold the turn, you're praying that he will bluff as often as possible on the next two streets.

scrub

[sthief09]

if he's laggy, your best hope isn't a chop. he could have AQ or AJ or AT or KQ, etc. if he couldn't have any of these hands, then he's not a LAG and you should've given up on the turn.

[chesspain]

BB folded to my river bet. Thanks to all for your replies.