Frustration City, some hands for check up. [Archive]

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B Dids

12-12-2004, 07:25 PM

Ever since I moved up to 3/6 I've been swinging 50BB up and down. Just a few hands for a sanity check.

#1 PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Dids is CO with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, MP folds, Dids raises, Button folds, SB folds, BB 3-bets, UTG folds, Dids caps, BB calls.

Flop: (9.33 SB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Dids raises, BB 3-bets, Dids calls.

I was really tempted to fold this flop. The BB was pretty passive pre flop, and I think I'm behind a lot on this flop given what range of hands I think he'd 3-bet me with. Still, good call down?

Turn: (7.66 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Dids calls.

River: (9.66 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Dids calls.

Final Pot: 11.66 BB

#2 PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Dids is BB with 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, MP calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB raises, Dids calls, MP calls.

Flop: (6 SB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB bets, Dids raises, MP calls, SB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Dids bets, MP calls, SB folds.

River: (8 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Dids bets, MP raises, Dids calls.

Worst possible river card for me, do you pay off here? What about the rest of the hand?

Final Pot: 12 BB

#3 PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Dids is UTG with 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Dids calls, MP raises, CO 3-bets, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, Dids calls, MP caps, CO calls, BB calls, Dids calls.

So the UTG limp sucks, but at what point do I lay down preflop here?

Flop: (16.33 SB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
BB checks, Dids checks, MP bets, CO calls, BB calls, Dids calls.

Backdoor flush draw, huge pot, call seems OK.

Turn: (10.16 BB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
BB checks, Dids checks, MP bets, CO folds, BB folds, Dids calls.

Now all of a sudden I'm heads up in a massive pot, and I felt compelled to call down with ace, and in retrospect I'm thinking that's horrible. I poker bad /images/graemlins/frown.gif

River: (12.16 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Dids checks, MP bets, Dids calls.

Final Pot: 14.16 BB

#4 PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Dids is BB with 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, MP folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB completes, Dids checks.

Flop: (3 SB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Dids bets, Button calls, SB folds.

Turn: (2.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Dids bets, Button raises, Dids calls.

River: (6.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Dids checks, Button bets, Dids calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

Another hand where I think I paid off where I didn't need to.

Grisgra

12-12-2004, 07:33 PM

Hand #1: Against a usually passive player I call the flop praying the turn will show me my 2-outer. (I think you have odds. Unless, heh, he has pocket aces). And then I fold.

Hand #2: MP called two cold on the flop. Fold the river.

Hand #3: "Backdoor flush draw, huge pot, call seems OK."
You're joking, right? /images/graemlins/grin.gif. Your ace probably isn't good . . . so chasing your 1.5 outer isn't a real sharp move IMHO.

Hand #4: Yeah, you're probably beaten, but there's a chance you're chopping with something like an aggressive A2 or whatnot. I call this one down way too much.

helpmeout

12-12-2004, 07:39 PM

1. Yuck dump this on the turn.

2. I wish I was good enough to fold to the river raise.

3. Fold it when it is 3bet back to you, dont open limp either.

4. I probably pay off, you still have TP.

Subfallen

12-12-2004, 07:44 PM

For what it's worth, the only hand I would habitually pay off is #4, just because you find people who like to wait for the turn to raise TPNK.

Hand #1: unlikely he pushes this hard on the flop with AA or QQ. But A(K-J)s are SO probable a call-down is brutal, esp. since the pot is small.

Hand #2: MP cold-called on the flop. With the rainbow, uncoordinated board, my experience indicates 4 possibilities among typical 3/6 goons, in order of appearance: (1) TP; (2) random pocket pair; (3) set; (4) A-high, for those devoted to donkeyness. My vote overwhelmingly goes to (1), so I would check-call the river or bet and fold to a raise almost always...though you only need to be best 8% of the time, so it's close.

Hand #3: Yeah, this no g00t.

TazQ

12-12-2004, 07:45 PM

1) How can you call down with KK on a AQ board vs a passive player who is still playing back at you? This is a huge leak.

2) Easy fold on the river. The flop had no draws, and he called two cold, what do you put him on?

3) Limping UTG seems pretty horrible. Flop call is very thin, let alone the turn.

4) Reads help in this spot, ya? Even just PF/PFR numbers and TOT-AGGR.

Jeff W

12-12-2004, 08:06 PM

1. If you're going to call down, there is no need to raise the flop. You're either beat or he's bluffing. When a passive player bets into a pre flop capper with an Ace on board, I strongly consider folding 2nd pair. His most likely hands are AK,AQ,QQ,AA.

When BB 3-bets you, you should call with the intent of folding the turn unimproved. The T on the turn improves your hand enough to call another bet with ~5 discounted +implied odds.

I would fold the river. I can't think of any hand he has that I beat.

Hand 2:

I fold the river without a good read. I don't think you're good 1/10. The rest of the hand is okay.

Hand 3:

Don't open limp. Raise or fold.

I would fold when it comes back 3 cold. I think the flop call is fine, but the turn is a clear fold. You have to be good 1/6 times to call down here!

Hand 4: I pay off here on this drawish board.

Alobar

12-12-2004, 09:16 PM

I havent read any of the other responses, but here is what I think

Hand 1: I think a call down is bad. You cap pre flop, he still bets into you on the flop and you raise and get 3 bet. You are behind. fold. Also, Raising the flop is pointless, Either decide to fold to his bet, or just call down and let him keep bluffing at you with his worse hand. Raising is just going to get you 3 bet by his pimp hands or allow him to dump his JJ or whatever with a clean conciense.

Hand 2: I fold pre flop, you are getting 5-1, but its going to be a shorthanded pot, and it was a SB raise not a button, so it suggests a much stronger hand. You can prolly fold the river, as you are representing the K with your flop raise, and he comes at you on the river when another one falls. I would have check/called, unless he is the type of player who will call you with A high, because I can't think of any other hand he will call you with that you now beat.

Hand 3: This is just UGLY. Don't limp this pre flop. I'm 60/40 fold/raise here. You definately should have folded when it came back to you 3 bet. The turn call is bad, Even if an ace will give you the win, you dont have the odds to chase a 3 outter (and I wouldnt even give you 3 outs here). The river call is just horrible.

Hand 4: I play the same way

Jeff W

12-12-2004, 10:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 3: Don't limp this pre flop. I'm 60/40 fold/raise here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are you inconsistent in whether you fold certain hands pre flop? By fold 60/raise 40 do you mean that you raise this selectively(ex: raise if the blinds are tight) 40% of the time or do you raise 40% of the time and fold the rest for balancing reasons?

Alobar

12-13-2004, 12:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 3: Don't limp this pre flop. I'm 60/40 fold/raise here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are you inconsistent in whether you fold certain hands pre flop? By fold 60/raise 40 do you mean that you raise this selectively(ex: raise if the blinds are tight) 40% of the time or do you raise 40% of the time and fold the rest for balancing reasons?

[/ QUOTE ]

I vary it based on table conditions. Its prolly only about 40% of the time the table conditions are I feel right for me to raise it. Some of it I'm sure also is if Im on a stretch of cold cards, A7s looks alot more exciting than if I've been getting a rush of great starting hands. So that factors in some too /images/graemlins/smile.gif

turnipmonster

12-13-2004, 11:51 AM

50BB swings are good practice for the 5/10, where you'll experience the wonder and magic of 100BB swings.

1) I fold the turn here.

2) fold the river, I give serious consideration to checkraising the turn.

3) like you said fold the turn. I play bad like this sometimes too.

4) I think there are times to pay this off (like if he was semibluffing a picked up draw). paying this off is pretty opponent dependent, against sane players I rarely pay it off.

--turnipmonster