Nut flush, this is so frustrating

[joedot]

Hero has A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif in co

2 limpers, hero calls, bb checks for flop:

K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif3 /images/graemlins/club.gif

checked to hero who bets, bb calls and mp calls. turn

8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

checked to hero who bets, bb calls, mp checkraises.

Hero just calls (going for the overcall, and waiting for the river to reraise for added deception)

River is A /images/graemlins/spade.gif

MP checks, I bet and he calls. He turns over Q7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif for the second nut flush. WTF? I can't believe I didn't win a lot more bets than I did.

[Nick C]

I've done this kind of thing before too, but, yeah, I do think you should 3-bet the turn. MP will probably at least call, so you're unlikely to gain anything on the turn by just calling to keep SB in.

You might gain a bet on the river with the turn call (or maybe MP will gain confidence and you'll gain even more), but I think it's better to go for a lot of immediate action here. Among other things, if MP is semi-bluffing with just the Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, then you won't get much out of him on the river anyway.

Plus, it's fun to 3-bet turn checkraises, when you have the hand to do it.

[bicyclekick]

Raise it pre-flop. 3 bet the turn. The main reason I say this is because bad players will often call more bets A)once they put money in on a street B) to see the river. He'll likely fold the river so get his money now. Another thing is you'll never get the turn capped and that's missing bets.

[joedot]

Thanks for reminding me of how I used to play. I need to go for the immediate 3 bet. Plus it punishes their checkraise tendency. Thanks guys. I still can't believe he check called the river though with that hand after I only called his raise on the turn.

[The Goober]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for reminding me of how I used to play. I need to go for the immediate 3 bet. Plus it punishes their checkraise tendency. Thanks guys. I still can't believe he check called the river though with that hand after I only called his raise on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm constantly amazed at how some passive players will slow down instantly if they are called on an even moderately scary board. They think that everyone else sees monsters just like they do, so when they checkraise on a three-flush board (which is a huge act of agression to them) they think that it must be obvious that they have a flush, and only a better flush would call them - never mind that there are only two better flushes, these players don't think about it that hard. I've seen players check behind on the river with top set when a back-door flush gets there - then when they win the hand, they are just relieved to have won and don't even think about how many bets they missed. Its loss aversion in it's purest form. I *love* playing against people like this.

This is all to say, of course, that I agree with everyone else that you should three-bet the turn. The passive guy with the flush won't fold, but your call of his checkraise will often scare him out of betting again.

[joedot]

Yeah, there was only one hand that beat him here. Ax diamonds. He had the second nuts. I think maybe one player in 5000 plays this one like he did.

[The Goober]

I suppose you are right - this is a pretty extreme case of passive play. I guess my comments actually apply more to the BB - he may be so scared of your call that he won't call one more bet on turn - unless he has something like the T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif or the J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif - in which case he is just as likely to call 2 as he is to call 1. Either way, 3-bet the turn.

[CUonCRUISE]

Last night I had 2 nut flushes over 2 oppenents w lower flushes (king/8 high and king/7 high) and we rammed and jammed the turn and I got araise in on river both times.Give the fools a chance to pay the max.I very rarely slowplay.