another commerce hand

[SossMan]

commerce 2/3 max $100 buy in NL.

3 (ep, mp, lp) limpers to me in CO w/ 68clubs, i limp, button (solid good player), raises to $10, all call (blinds fold) everyone has about $150-200.
5 to the flop ($65): J /images/graemlins/club.gif5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

checked to lag in LP who bets $15, i look left and button looks uninterested, i call, button minraises to $30 (whoops), folded to lag who calls, i call.

turn: 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif
lag checks, i check, button checks ("MUTHERFUCKKKKKERRR!!!)

river: 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

lag checks, i check, button checks and of course MHIG.

misplayed on every street?

(as it turns out, LAG had J4 and was going for the check raise on the turn (he had a $200 stack that was mine if button would have complied and bet)

[SossMan]

bump-a-roo

[jslag]

Why not go all-in on the river? I don't put LAG or the Button on any full house here. LAG would have bet the river with a full house, and the button would have bet the turn with a set. Seems very +EV to me to make a river bet/push.

J.

[SossMan]

yeah, my plan of checkraising the guy who checked through the turn when i practically had the nuts was...well, indicitive of my skill level at cash games.

-SossMan

[TheWorstPlayer]

I agree with Berge20, bet the turn small. Hope to get two calls or a raise. In this case, you probably get a call and a raise (lucky you).

[Richie Rich]

Given that you just called the first player's bet, and then the button's raise, I'd say the button SHOULD most likely put you on some kind of draw. And since the flop was a rainbow, str8 draw would be most reasonable. (True, a slowplayed two pair or set is possible, but a str8 draw is more likely.)

When your str8 hit on the turn, you can either check (going for the check-raise) or bet. I'd prefer to bet out, maybe 1/2 the pot to make it a little bigger. Not only are you milking a hand like AJ or overpair, while not giving a free card that could possibly pair the board if he has a set, but you're building the pot so you can make a value bet on the river. And if button re-raises you...then great!

But since the board paired on the river, you couldn't bet your str8 without fearing/suspecting the full house. Next time.

[Richie Rich]

[ QUOTE ]
button would have bet the turn with a set.

[/ QUOTE ]
If button sensed our hero was on a str8 draw (since there weren't any flush draws on the flop), then that 4 looked like it could have completed a possible straight. I can understand why button may have checked if he was, in fact, holding a set. Which is all the more reason why hero should have bet the turn. Check-raise would've been too obvious. And it doesn't given villain a free card (10 outs) to pair the board.


[ QUOTE ]
Seems very +EV to me to make a river bet/push.


[/ QUOTE ]
Not sure why you say that. Unless our hero was tagged as a LAG at his table, I can't imagine a worse hand calling a big river bet/push.

[creedofhubris]

Bet the turn.

Since you checked, bet the river moderately, fold to a push.

[MarkL444]

Checking the river makes no sense to me. Did you expect him to bet?

[Richie Rich]

In most games, full house beats a straight.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Yup. Checking the river seems ok, but checking the turn makes no sense to me.

[SossMan]

did you miss where I stated that I thought there were potential misplays on every street?

i think checking the river was pretty bad.

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
Yup. Checking the river seems ok, but checking the turn makes no sense to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

funny. I think the opposite. I think the turn check is pretty standard, given that the player behind me raised the flop and there is a lag in between us who may try something crazy.
I didn't think that the button would have miniraised w/ a whiffed AK and there were no flush draws out, so I thought he had top pair at a minimum. I didn't think that the 4 was that scary of a card to make him check on a drawlicious board.

The river check after it got checked through on the turn was pretty bad, since I would easily have made a good value bet on the river.

[MarkL444]

[ QUOTE ]
In most games, full house beats a straight.

[/ QUOTE ]

In most games, people will call with less than a full house.

[Richie Rich]

[ QUOTE ]
When your str8 hit on the turn, you can either check (going for the check-raise) or bet. I'd prefer to bet out, maybe 1/2 the pot to make it a little bigger. Not only are you milking a hand like AJ or overpair, while not giving a free card that could possibly pair the board if he has a set, but you're building the pot so you can make a value bet on the river. And if button re-raises you...then great!

[/ QUOTE ]

In my earlier post, I stated exactly why you shouldn't have checked on the turn.

[fimbulwinter]

yeah, you missed value bets on both the turn and river. I'd bet the river here every time, but i'd feel i'd get called by so many hands I beat that i think a river bet is certainly +ev, especially because you may get called in two places by like AK unimproved and JT or whatever.

sort of unrelated: these short LA 100NL games are a circus. the money (unless you're really deep) is way too shallow to try for facny stuff; just ram-n-jam if you want to get the money- they'll call you with a gutshot, 2nd pair or K high is they think you're bluffing. no need to get sublime.

fim

[SossMan]

let me be clear.
I didn't check because I thought I was behind on the river. I know I would have heard from two pair or a set on the turn.
For that same reason, I should have bet out.

The turn check is still okay, IMO.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
commerce 2/3 max $100 buy in NL.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a newb... just verifying, $2/$3 are the blind sizes right?

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
commerce 2/3 max $100 buy in NL.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a newb... just verifying, $2/$3 are the blind sizes right?

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah

[gergery]

This is clearly a trick question, as Sossman would never play a hand to the river where he does not bet/raise at least once. /images/graemlins/ooo.gif

I like a turn bet.

Pot is $150 now and each of you have $110-160 left, so any add’l bet by button is basically pot committing – and reasonably likely to get called since he’s got 2 callers already and you’re getting 2:1 or better on a call and some draws hit.

--Greg

[SossMan]

/images/graemlins/shocked.gif calling is the new raising