Am I maximizing my winnings or just going too easy? [Archive]

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Cerril

12-12-2004, 01:35 AM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Cerril is BB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button raises, SB folds, Cerril calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (12.33 SB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (6 players)
Cerril checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Button bets, Cerril calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds.

Turn: (8.16 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
Cerril checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, Button bets, Cerril calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Obviously any draw that can beat me is coming along for the ride, but there are quite a few hands from your average LP-Ps that will fold to two bets and call one.

River: (12.16 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
Cerril checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, Button bets, Cerril raises, UTG folds, MP1 folds, Button calls.

Final Pot: 16.16 BB

Harv72b

12-12-2004, 03:00 AM

Why not bet out the river? Give UTG & MP1 the chance to call one & hopefully get a raise anyway from the Button.

3-betting preflop wouldn't have been a bad move, either.

college_boy

12-12-2004, 03:28 AM

Yeah I three bet this preflop and bet out on the turn. If you're lucky he'll raise. A check raise on the turn wouldn't be a bad play either because a king will most likely try to draw out. Overall I think your play was probably a bit passive here.

HajiShirazu

12-12-2004, 03:40 AM

3-bet preflop.
I would have bet the turn. Nobody will put you on AK for the straight, especially since you didn't reraise preflop. You might even get raised by the buttons possible AQ, a limpers possible 2 pair, or an set/overpair. Also it is terrible thinking to not raise because "draws will come along anyway." Of course they will (two clubs, any K and often a 9 will call) and you profit from their calls since you have the nuts.
Then the river, that sucks too, way to let them get away from marginal hands by facing them with 2 cold.

Cerril

12-12-2004, 03:46 AM

By the way, I didn't fail to raise the turn because the draws would come, I didn't raise because I thought many hands drawing dead to me that would come for one bet would fold for two - and that might include the bettor.

Yeah, the river was pretty terrible, I agree there.

Cerril

12-12-2004, 04:03 AM

Alright, three-bet preflop. Incidentally, would I still want to if the raise had come from EP? I realized that I had a great chance to thin the field by reraising here right after I hit 'call'. My general line is to just call from the blinds with a hand I'd only normally go to three bets with if I couldn't get any additional folds. I guess it had happened a lot that way since I reflexively called instead of raised here.

I still don't see any reason to raise the turn, but I might want to be betting out there. No reason to try to disguise my hand, the call PF did that.

On the river betting would also be good, since there's always the worry that it'll be checked through. If it's raised on the turn or river so much the better.

shant

12-12-2004, 05:57 AM

3-Bet preflop, bet the flop, and bet the turn.

On our line, if draws were going to come along anyway, make them pay 2 on that turn.

Cerril

12-12-2004, 07:58 AM

Betting the turn is good, but you're focusing on the wrong part of my comment. I don't really see any reason to bet the flop since I'm almost certainly behind and have no idea which outs are clean aside from the 4.

The turn isn't a bad bet, as one bet won't scare them away on the river. But as I was saying, don't focus on 'draws will come along anyway' so much as 'hands without draws will come along for 1, but not 2'.. however, betting the turn fixes that. The only worry is that the PFR has a weak hand and would surrender it here. But I think that's just being scared of success.

Octopus

12-12-2004, 11:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Alright, three-bet preflop. Incidentally, would I still want to if the raise had come from EP? I realized that I had a great chance to thin the field by reraising here right after I hit 'call'. My general line is to just call from the blinds with a hand I'd only normally go to three bets with if I couldn't get any additional folds. I guess it had happened a lot that way since I reflexively called instead of raised here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if you knew they would all call, you should still 3-bet. This is a 3-bet for value. (Even if they call, you will probably win well over 17% of the time. If they fold, you get lots of dead money in the pot.) Making limpers pay 3 bets to see the flop is good poker.