early no limit : betting a set

what is the correct play in a no limit hold em tourney in this situation:

start with 2000 in chips

preflop one call early positon, in late posion i raise 100 with QQ, all fold but early caller. flop is 9s 4s QC,

QQ in last position vs early position heads up.

early checks, QQ bets 500, early calls

turn 5s

early goes all in


should i have gone all in on the flop with a set?

do you call all-in?

fold?

i folded

I think you did fine.


Even if he bluffed you out, so what?

You overcharged him for a spade; he paid the price and hit one. You mustn't give him the implied odds when he hits his hand. 75% of the time he calls, you can set him in on the turn.


There's not much out there except a flush draw or J10, and on frequency grounds I'd put him on the flush draw.

There is a ton of information missing here for us to give you a sensible answer. Including (but not limited to) : what are the blinds, freezeout or rebuy, what's the buy-in and the general standard of play, what do you know about your opponent and do you have the Qs in your hand.


If you expect a definitive answer based only on the information you have given us then you need to think harder about the game.


Andy.

ok...here's more info:

start with 5000

blinds 50 100

freezeout

buy in 50

dont know the opponent

standard of play generally strong

i have the QQ

Well, in that case I think your main problem here is pre-flop. By raising the minimum you have tipped the strength of your own hand but learned nothing about your opponent's. This makes it very difficult to put your opponent on a hand.


Meanwhile it's still not clear how much you have to call on the turn, 1500 or 4500 ? And do you have the Q of spades in your hand ?? Meanwhile you may know nothing about your opponent but do you play this tournament regularly ? How do typical opponents play on the flop heads-up if they flop a flush draw ?


Presenting your question in such a minimalist way could be caused by inexperience, laziness or lack of thought. I hope it's the first of those because no one will get very far in poker with the other two !


Andy.

Oh how wrong you are Andy. I'm one of the laziest people you will ever encounter, and I do fairly well at the tables /images/biggrin.gif


Regards,

Richard

Is it really necessary to belittle other posters in this way? Yes, you need more information to give a great answer, but there is no need to start name calling.


Your posts contain very good information, and I sometimes enjoy reading them. But much too often your comments berating others are just not called for.

I didn't think I was name calling or belittling anybody, but I apologise if that's how it came across.


It simply frustrates me at times when people appear to want instant answers, and when people do not put sufficient effort into their initial post, which I maintain is the case here.


Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind. But I concede that maybe a net forum is not the best place :-).


Andy.

While I don't really think Andy meant to cause offence with his criticisms of the original post, I do think that perhaps he (Andy) was asking for just a little bit too much...


To give all the data, e.g. to classify the opponent properly, you need to be quite a good player... and probably good enough to know the answer to the original question already! The poster clearly does not know the answer, and the main reason for that must surely be that he/she does not know the answers to some of the questions Andy was asking.


Having said that, Andy's two posts contain some valuable advice, I think: the first thing you need to consider is what you know of your opponent; and if you don't have any data, consider a typical opponent in this tournament. It does seem to be the case that the regular players in a given tournament have certain common ways of playing their hands: I know one tourney where the nut flush draw almost always gets bet, and another where this happens very seldom, for example.


I don't think the point about holding a card in the flush suit is very important, unless it's the highest available card. Perhaps Andy disagrees; if so, I'd like to know why.


Enough from me,


Guy.

Guy,


I'm really not sure which question I asked to which the original poster did not know the answer. Even if you know nothing about your opponent, say so and that's an answer we can take into account ! All the same we might as well let this drop unless we do hear more.


The Qs gives you extra outs if you are up against a small flush and eliminates some likely hands for our opponent to have (Qs + another spade).


Andy.

Aha! I see now that a serious possibility is that the opponent had top pair and a flush draw, although it looks like pretty poor poker to check-call with that hand and then push in when the flush comes. But maybe I'm wrong: I guess TPFAP promotes playing good hands more meekly than I'm used to.


In a cash game I would check-raise all-in with that hand. (I would go on to miss the flush and lose to the trips, oh well.) What about in a tournament?


I've talked myself into calling a possible flush on the basis that I held a key card, like the Qc in this case, one time too many. "But I had the blockers " etc etc.


I completely agree that saying you don't have a particular piece of data is more useful than saying nothing, but my point was that the main things a learning player needs to know are what information is important, and how to use it. That's certainly the area where I fall down.


I reckon your replies did a good job of pointing out what data to look for (which was my point above) but didn't say too much about how to use it.


I am rambling today. Sorry about that.


Guy.

I think at least part of Andy's complaint, and mine as well, is that the original post was not even entirely understandable. Even a beginning player should be able to clearly state the problem, and courtesy dictates that one should try to make the question cogent, especially if one is interested in the answer.


Craig