PDA

View Full Version : Mea Culpa of a former bowling sandbagger


Daliman
12-11-2004, 01:05 PM
I used to be a HARDCORE sandbagger. I had a 149 average for 3 years in league, yet was anywhere from a 175-200 bowler the whole time. I won about 18k in 4 years of bagging,(which i needed badly at the time), but I just got sick of feeling like an ass[/b}hole.

Two funny stories about this,(depending on your perspective, i suppose);

First, myself and 2 friends went to bowl in a big tournament in the detroit area called the Hamtramck. 20k for first place, and 1k for all the top 50 finishers. It was a 4 game tourney, and had been going on for like 4 months, and had like 11000 entries or so. My friends and I show up, all with a minimum of 20 pins of sand in out bags each,(at the time i was averaging 209 in a non-sanctioned summer league, but a walled shot tho). We drove all night to get there, had breakfast, then bowled one practice game each.

Well, myself and another friend ended up shooting enough to each get into the top 50, so 1k guaranteed each. While we are leaving, my friend mentions he had found a checkbook in the bathroom, but no one had said anything in the lanes to management about missing it. Inside it he found $200, so he said lunch was on him(yes, we suck; I know).

Well, when we got in the car to leave, he started looking through the checkbook, and saw a flash of green; there were more bills inside it! $1000 more, to be exact. So he ditched the checkbook, and we went to Red Lobster and all got a whole lobster. Racked up about a $220 bill, (woulda been more, but we laid off the drinks since we were bowling again later.) After that, it's about 4pm, and we go to the Driving range to hit a few balls. Now, other than the fact that it was 97 degrees out that day, and we were all tired, both physically and mentally, I had only golfed 3 times in my life before that, so you can imagine the havoc my baseball swing played with my already tired body in this heat. But we each hit a huge bucket's worth, and went back to the lanes to wait to bowl again.

The final round of the tournament was to start at 7pm, but there were some problems and it didn't get started until around 8:30. At this point, I'd had about 1 hour of sleep in the previous 38, and was starting to get the shakes a bit, brought on not only by the lack of sleep, but also the fact that I shake a bit anyways(just the hands), I weighed about 130 at the time, and I throw a 16 lb ball at a higher velocity than 80% of all bowlers, plus, of course, the golf.
So anyways, I'm not sure that I can bowl, but f it, It's only $55, and I'm already up $1000. Of course, only my best score counts, so unless I pop into the top ten or cash higher with our boxed 4-man doubles, it's a waste. Course, there WAS the brackets too, so i bowled again.


Now, top score going in was about 1055, meaning with my 149( /images/graemlins/laugh.gif ) average, i would need to shoot about 832 scratch for 4 games to surpass it. Well, first game, I shoot 237, shakes and all. Of course, i lose in 5 of my 12 brackets because my friend shoots 255 and I happen to be vs him in 5 of them, but oh well. Second game, I shoot 198, with still nary an open frame, and I had gotten tapped pretty badly in the 9th and tenth preventing a 220 or so game. I was CRUSHING the pocket, and was dead-on on my spares. If I could shoot 400 for the last two, I was in like Flynn for 20k. So then the third game, I am rolling along with an 88 in the 4th frame and a strike up in the fith, when the lane breaks down. It takes them 15 minutes of screwing around before they finally decide they have to move us. Now, moving a bowler to a different lane in the middle of a game, to the uninitiated, is semi-disastrous, as the oil pattern is often FAR different, and you have zero chance to adjust with a practice shot or two. As if this wasn;t bad enough, the lack of sleep and overtiredness of 8+ games of bowling and golf started to really hit me hard, combined with my arm going cold from the break. I ended up throwing splits on my next 2 frames on the new, MUCH oilier lanes, and ended up with a 178. I could still get there with a 220 game, but I was too tired and spent to throw a solid ball anymore. I ended up shooting a 167, which still gave me a higher total than before, and all FOUR of us qualified in the top 50 that time, one of my friends coming in 16th. When we left there, after 13,000 different doubles teams had bowled,(PS, 4 bowlers boxed=6 teams, everyone paired with each other), and we had 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 7th place, LOL!

Needless to say, we got a few dirty looks as we left. The $2800 I made soothed my paid though.

As a funny postscript to this, I know TOMS of baggers thatbowl this event every year. We went the following year, knowing full well we would likely be rerated, which was fine. Even with a rerate, we were still low.

When we got there, at the sign up desk, we were sked if we had ever been rerated, and I said yes, here. The person at the counter looked at a small piece of paper taped to the counter, which had 7 names on it.

4 were my friends and I.

I thought it was pretty funny that only 7 people EVER had been rerated there, even though a guy I knew who was at LEAST 40 pins deep WON the event 2 years before, yet still wan't rerated. Funny thing, I was rerated to 171; I shoot 229,226,198 the first 3 games, blowing a 9 pin spare in the tenth the third game(cought oil, bah), I needed to shoot about 195 to get in the top 50 again THIS year, but I opened the first 3 frames, missing 2 single pin spares because of an odd oil pattern on our lane, and summarily begin chucking the ball as hard as I can and shooting a 136. The next day, when I come back to bowl again, I have now been rerated to 191, even though my average there was barely higher. I ask why, they say because I threw away the last game, which makes no sense, as I wanted to cash, and only "threw it away" after I had already screwed it up. Oddly enough, in their infinite wisdom, they said that if i HAD shot 200 orso and gotten into the top 50, i;d not have been rerated again.... /images/graemlins/confused.gif.

So of the 8 people who had EVER been rerated there in 7 years, I am two of them, my friends are 3 more...

As it turns out, one of my friends shot 300, and then qualified for $100 for the third year in a row after his scores were DQ'd the previous year on a technicality,(although rightfully so, but it WAS ticky tack).

Wow, was that a long story.

Anyways, this one is shorter.

A small buyin tourney near my house had about 500 total entrants over the weekend, I was bowling on the last squad with my trusty 150 average, and had been crushing as of late, shooting 700 in 3 of my last 5 series on league, with a 289 in there for good measure and a 14 in a row run. Never one for "camouflage", other than my already unorthodox chicken-wing delivery borne of learn to bowl with a 16 lb ball when i weighed 95, I summarily shoot 228, 237, 227, and have the first 4 strikes in the final game when i hear over the loudspeaker;

"AARON O'ROURKE, PLEASE COME TO THE TOURNAMENT OFFICE. AND BRING YOUR EQUIPMENT."

Turns out they went into a panic when they saw a guy who shoulf have 600 scratch for 4 games have that at 2 and a half, and started calling around about me. They said I had failed to claim previous winnings on my entry sheet, but alas, the entry sheet did not ask for previous winnings. They then stammered a bit, and went into a huddle. Since first place was only $300 or so, and I had already had a good year and didn;t want to get one of the guys in trouble running it that I knew(but didnt know I was Lawrence of Arabia), I told then if they give me my entry fee back, I'd go quietly. They jumped at the offer, and even gave me a ten free game pass. I guess it would have looked bad if a guy averaging 150 came in and not only won the tournament by over 100 pins, but would have come in 2nd or 3rd in a scratch division in which 4 PBA pros were entered, including Bill Spigner.

As it turned out, My 34 frame score with handicap was only 8 pins lower than the top score posted for the full 4 games, good enough for 3rd place had it counted from where I stopped, lol.

JeffO
12-11-2004, 01:57 PM
I don't get it. Are you proud of this? As far as I'm concerned, both you and your friends are low life cheating scumbags.

TimM
12-11-2004, 02:53 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't get it. Are you proud of this? As far as I'm concerned, both you and your friends are low life cheating scumbags.

[/ QUOTE ]

Welcome to the world of bowling. Not everyone was this bad, but not many bowlers I know would try extra hard to make that spare in the 10th when the game is out. But that's what you get when you play under a handicap system that rewards mediocrity.

Some of the stuff that went on in the action matches that I didn't get involved in, but knew about, were dump matches where sometimes both sides knew it was a dump. These usually turned out to be more of a farce than anything else.

My uncle was an action bowler in the 60's, and he once caught an opponent with a friend in the pit using a wire to get a little better carry.

ilya
12-11-2004, 04:10 PM
[ QUOTE ]

Not everyone was this bad, but not many bowlers I know would try extra hard to make that spare in the 10th when the game is out. But that's what you get when you play under a handicap system that rewards mediocrity.


[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I'm a low-life dirty scumbag, but this sounds like a fairly legit meta-strategy to me, especially if it's common knowledge in the bowling community that people do this.
I think it adds an interesting extra dimension to the game, actually.

People do this in the chess world as well. For example, say you're playing in a winner-take-all round robin tournament and it's the last game. You know you're not gonna win because the leader is 1.5 points clear of you. You also know that if you win this game, your rating will increase so much that you will be ineligible to play in another upcoming tournament. On the other hand, the rating increase would qualify you for a tougher tournament with more prestige and bigger prizes. Now say you have white and feel that you have a substantial edge on your opponent. You now have an interesting decision to make. Do you push for the win or play for the easy draw?
Not only is the player's decision interesting, but I feel that letting such decisions be an accepted part of the game makes the game more interesting for fans.

I think you could even make an (admittedly tenuous) analogy between this and, say, folding AA to a short stack all-in on the bubble when you have a huge stack. In a sense, you're cheating the medium stacks but playing below your (hand's) ability.

.....

A final thought: Are you sandbagging if you're not using the best equipment you can afford?

TimM
12-11-2004, 05:02 PM
The chess analogy is a little contrived. More common sandbagging in chess would be throwing games in small tournaments and then using the reduced rating to enter lower sections of big money events. But there is a limit to how much this can be done, and just being in a section one class lower than you should be is no guarantee of anything. More dangerous is the strong foreign player who comes to the US, plays a few small tournaments and establishes a rating several classes below his true strength.

I never did like the bowling handicap system, and the trend for ever higher handicap percentages. It pretty much forces the kind of behavior I wrote about. It doesn't promote trying to bowl your best, and may even thwart improvement for some. What's the incentive to get better when you lose 8 or 9 pins of handicap for every 10 pins you add to your average?

ilya
12-11-2004, 05:12 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The chess analogy is a little contrived. More common sandbagging in chess would be throwing games in small tournaments and then using the reduced rating to enter lower sections of big money events. But there is a limit to how much this can be done, and just being in a section one class lower than you should be is no guarantee of anything. More dangerous is the strong foreign player who comes to the US, plays a few small tournaments and establishes a rating several classes below his true strength.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do think the kind of thing I'm talking about happens on the pro circuit, but you have a good point. The scenario you describe is indeed much more common.

daryn
12-11-2004, 05:25 PM
opinion of daliman has gone down down down...

not that you care, i understand. the worst part though is not about sandbagging, hell i see that as great! but man, how could you take that guy's thousand bucks?

slickpoppa
12-11-2004, 05:40 PM
yeah that's pretty low. if i were that guy and i found out it was you i would cut out your eyes and piss in your ocular cavities.

Benholio
12-11-2004, 05:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
opinion of daliman has gone down down down...

not that you care, i understand. the worst part though is not about sandbagging, hell i see that as great! but man, how could you take that guy's thousand bucks?

[/ QUOTE ]

It is easy to say you wouldn't take the money, but how many people would actually give it up if nobody was looking?

DeucesUp
12-11-2004, 05:44 PM
Thanks a very interesting story. Thanks for sharing and fessing up.

I am disgusted by the lengths you went to to cheat, but I'm hardly shocked by it. I think stories like this are important to hear because it's a good reminder of what we're up against when we play a game for money (poker). There should be no doubt that there are thousands of people out there waiting to take our money by any means possible. Collusion, bots, hacking, whatever. People's integrity certainly isn't going to save us, so we need to keep the pressure on the poker rooms to be viligant catching cheaters.

slickpoppa
12-11-2004, 05:46 PM
[ QUOTE ]
It is easy to say you wouldn't take the money, but how many people would actually give it up if nobody was looking?

[/ QUOTE ]
The money was in a checkbook. Most people have their name and address on their checks. it wouldnt be too hard to track the person down.

daryn
12-11-2004, 05:50 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
opinion of daliman has gone down down down...

not that you care, i understand. the worst part though is not about sandbagging, hell i see that as great! but man, how could you take that guy's thousand bucks?

[/ QUOTE ]

It is easy to say you wouldn't take the money, but how many people would actually give it up if nobody was looking?

[/ QUOTE ]

it's not about anybody looking or not. if i found money in the street, cash, that's one thing. but if i found a wallet full of money with the guys license and information and all, i would return the money.

you can take that to the bank baby.

Daliman
12-11-2004, 07:40 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't get it. Are you proud of this? As far as I'm concerned, both you and your friends are low life cheating scumbags.

[/ QUOTE ]
me·a cul·pa (m klp, m) KEY

NOUN:

An acknowledgment of a personal error or fault

Daliman
12-11-2004, 07:42 PM
I wasn't the guy making the decision. Yeah, I felt bad about it, and still do, but I kept none of the money,(but did enjoy the lobster) /images/graemlins/frown.gif .

Also, just as a postscript/addon to this, I'm not honestly sure what I would have done at the time if it were ME who found it. I'd like to say I'd have returned it, but I can't be sure. I CAN however say that since then, I have;

A: Notified an opponent that he had a better hand than I did in a $400 pot when he was about to muck after showing me i had "drawn out" on his set with a flush, not realizing the flush filled him up,(if the cards had touched the muck facedown, which they were about to with no one ever noticing, his hand would have been dead).

B. Picked up a $500 chip a drunk patron at the mirage had dropped and gave it back to him, for which I recieved a dirty look from the [censored] who looked like he wouldn't have even noticed or cared if it was $5000.

rusty JEDI
12-11-2004, 07:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]
It is easy to say you wouldn't take the money, but how many people would actually give it up if nobody was looking?


[/ QUOTE ]

Id give it back without hesitation in a second.

Rule #1 when you find something like this is dont give it to the lost and found or owners of the establishment to handle. They are just as likely to walk off with it as hand it out. Keep hold of it yourself and tell the lost and found/owner you have it and leave your phone number behind.

rJ

Daliman
12-11-2004, 07:56 PM
Agreed. But then again, I mostly only bowled in handicap tournaments, where I can EASILY say 50%+ of the participants have at least SOME sand in their bag. Combine that with the bowlers that could afford to buy the newest equipment at all times,(I was working 50 miles from home making 28k a year at the time), made me feel less bad about it, but I thought it was an interesting stroy, nonetheless.

Also, you show me a handicap tournament winner, especially the big ones, and I'll show you a guy with at least 20 pins of sand in his bag 9 times out of ten. Doesn't make it right though.

And as far as the $1200, yea, it was pretty crappy, but the guy who found it was about to get married and needed money, and also minced this with the fact that if he turned it in he might get in trouble from the owner for not doing so right away(weak, I know). My total personal profit from this was about $80 in lobster and golf balls, which, in retrospect, I could have just as easily done without given the circumstances.

If it makes you feel any better, I help support my Mother and my grandmother, and have been since WAY before I was doing well in poker. We all do things we regret in life. I've never beaten the sh[/b]it out of someone in a bar for spilling a drink on me(or for any reason, for that matter, and I could have), I've never driven drunk, and I HAVE gotten sucker-punched(TWICE!) by a person 100 ls bigger than me for standing up to him when he smacked a girl i barely knew for smacking him after he anonymously walked by and grabbed her ass in a nightclub.

I sleep OK at night.

Popinjay
12-11-2004, 08:44 PM
[ QUOTE ]
opinion of daliman has gone down down down...

not that you care, i understand. the worst part though is not about sandbagging, hell i see that as great! but man, how could you take that guy's thousand bucks?

[/ QUOTE ]

No use in judging him by what he did XX many years ago, and has openly acknowledged as bad.

Sponger15SB
12-11-2004, 11:03 PM
[ QUOTE ]
opinion of daliman has gone down down down...

not that you care, i understand. the worst part though is not about sandbagging, hell i see that as great! but man, how could you take that guy's thousand bucks?

[/ QUOTE ]

From what I heard when Daliman was busy losing all his money in the 25/50NL game on UB, Bobby Hoff was quoted as saying "playing against daliman is easier than finding a checkbook full of money in a bowling alley bathroom"

Daliman
12-11-2004, 11:16 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
opinion of daliman has gone down down down...

not that you care, i understand. the worst part though is not about sandbagging, hell i see that as great! but man, how could you take that guy's thousand bucks?

[/ QUOTE ]

From what I heard when Daliman was busy losing all his money in the 25/50NL game on UB, Bobby Hoff was quoted as saying "playing against daliman is easier than finding a checkbook full of money in a bowling alley bathroom"

[/ QUOTE ]

Bah on you.

WHY have I given you all so much ammo? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

P.S. For the record, I only lost a total of 9k in that game. No big deal, but yes, bobby was happy.