Is it posible to beat the casino in BlackJack ?

[Trix]

Hi, never thought people were allowed to change the amount they bet each hand, but if it´s allowed, can you then beat this game, and with perfect play for how much ?

European BlackJack (http://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/bjeurope.html)

-Trix

[cardcounter0]

Yes, it is possible to beat this game.

With perfect play, in the long run, you can expect to win 2% of your total amount wagered.

[Freakin]

How could you beat a game with a HA of .62-.65%? It doesnt' matter how much you wager, no betting system will overcome a house advantage.

Freakin

[cardcounter0]

A betting system that bet more when you had the advantage and bet less when the dealer had the advantage would make money in the long run.

80% of the profit made in Blackjack counting cards is from the above principle.

[Iceman]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi, never thought people were allowed to change the amount they bet each hand, but if it´s allowed, can you then beat this game, and with perfect play for how much ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on how deep into the six decks they deal, how big a bet spread you can get away with, and whether you're a good enough counter to also vary your plays with the count as well as your bets.

[AngryCola]

I don't like the European rule(s).

I want peeking! /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Homer]

[ QUOTE ]
How could you beat a game with a HA of .62-.65%? It doesnt' matter how much you wager, no betting system will overcome a house advantage.

Freakin

[/ QUOTE ]

It will when the game involves a series of dependent trials (in other words, the actual house advantage varies from hand to hand).

[Trix]

Sry guys, forgot to say that it´s online, so you can´t count the cards. Only difference is that you can vary the betsize. You aren´t allowed to do that in Casinos are you ?

[Superfluous Man]

[ QUOTE ]
Sry guys, forgot to say that it´s online, so you can´t count the cards. Only difference is that you can vary the betsize. You aren´t allowed to do that in Casinos are you ?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, you are allowed to vary your bet size at a casino. You just cannot go below the table minimum or above the table maximum, both of which should be posted clearly somewhere on/near the table.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, it is possible to beat this game.

With perfect play, in the long run, you can expect to win 2% of your total amount wagered.

[/ QUOTE ]

Beating this game for a 2% edge seems high (isn't that the kind of edge you have in a normal BJ game?). The European rules really are terrible for the player, especially wen a lot of a players edge comes from splits and double downs. I'm not a BJ expert, but I would avoid this game at all costs. If it is beatable you would likely need near flawless play with a very good counting system that takes into account the bad rules.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
Sry guys, forgot to say that it´s online, so you can´t count the cards. Only difference is that you can vary the betsize. You aren´t allowed to do that in Casinos are you ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Without counting this is certainly a terrible game, and worse than most online BJ games as well IIRC.

[Trix]

Hi all

Reason I was asking this is that my brother thinks he can beat this game (because he is up so far).

He thinks he can win by betting like 1,2,4,8 and so on each time he looses. I guess he just forgets to think about the time he will hit a bad streak.

He even linked me to a site with a simulation and some math that showed one would lose in the long run doing this and yet he still wants to keep doing it.

Anyawys, hope he will realize it before he busts completely.

Thx for the help all.

[charlie_t_jr]

Most online games "shuffle" after each hand, which would negate counting. Some though do deal into the deck some(Global Player)...but only about 30%, which is horrible.

The system you describe is not a winning system,online or in the casino, which I guess you understand. If he is set on playing online with a progressive betting system, his best bet would be to find a single deck game online....and hope for a lot of luck.

[Freakin]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi all

Reason I was asking this is that my brother thinks he can beat this game (because he is up so far).

He thinks he can win by betting like 1,2,4,8 and so on each time he looses. I guess he just forgets to think about the time he will hit a bad streak.

He even linked me to a site with a simulation and some math that showed one would lose in the long run doing this and yet he still wants to keep doing it.

Anyawys, hope he will realize it before he busts completely.

Thx for the help all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Trix,

See here. (http://www.wizardofodds.com/gambling/betting-systems.html) This may be the page your brother found. If so, he is stupid, and you should disown him. A betting system other than flat line (which is strictly for betting and does not include counting) will lose more in teh long run (which most of us probably know by now).

Freakin

[Trix]

Yeah, thats the site.

[ QUOTE ]
A betting system other than flat line (which is strictly for betting and does not include counting) will lose more in teh long run (which most of us probably know by now).

[/ QUOTE ]
You aren´t saying a flat betting system is winning are you ?

He claims to be understanding but accepting it, with the argument, that he will just play a few hours/month and then cash 500 each month till he doesnt have anymore.
I´m telling him to just cash 500 each month without playing or play poker instead as he is loosing on each bet he makes, but he still wont listen. Usually he isnt that stupid /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Anyways, thx for the help.
Will head over to probability and see if someone can calc when he will bust /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Freakin]

No, I'm just saying a flat-line system will lose less money. The system of doubling bets every time (Martingale, I believe) will lose more money than flat line, but both are losers strictly as a betting system, not considering counting.

Freakin

[CORed]

As others have said the Martingale (double after every loss, revert to base bet after every win) system doen't change the house edge, and, because your average bet is bigger, increases your expected loss. However, it does have a short term effect on the distribution of wins and losses. What you are actually doing with this system is trading a low probability of a huge loss for a high probability of a small win. The bigger your bankroll, the lower the risk of busting out, but your entire bankroll is always at risk. If you play this system long enough, no matter how big you bankroll is, you will eventually hit a losing streak that will cost you your entire bankroll.

If your base bet is a dollar a 10 hand losing streak will put $1023 at risk so you can net a dollar for the series if you win the 11th. A ten hand losing streak isn't all that unusual in blackjack. With a huge bankroll, you will start running into maximum limits before you put your whole bankroll on the line.