The System

Hello,


I experimented with David Sklansky's "system" in a large no-limit tourney yesterday. Placed 23rd out of 150. However in his book he states that he gave his original subject different instructions for playing the blinds. Does anyone know what these instructions are/might be. I'd be interested with experimenting a little more with the system.


Thanks

what knocked you out of the tourney?

I was blinded away. Ended up all in on the big blind with A3os (ie I only had enough chips left for the big blind) and was knocked out by UTG raiser who had AK.

I think I might have gone further had I seen more "system hands". Didn't have a single Axs and only a few suited connectors. There was also one very frustrating moment when I was on the button with QQ and was all set to raise all in when the player two places to my right made an obvious steal raise - the system dictated I fold so I did! It was also very frustrating having to muck AQ a few times. Still I did chuckle when five players limped in and I raised all in with Jh10h and they all folded. It's certainly an interesting idea, but not the most fun in the world to play. One comment I would make is that other players (those who don't realise you are playing the system) mark you down as an absoloute rock and your blinds become easy meat to steal raises - that's why I'm particularly interested in knowing David Sklansky's system for playing the blinds.

I should imagine that the addendum for playing the blinds only applies to those hands where you are in the BB and there is no raise pre-flop. There would then be some minimum criteria for going all-in on the flop.


One point which I am interested in but haven't seen brought up is the one instance of the "success" of the system. This is described in TPFAP when the backer tries it himself in a $2000 tournament. It's still not clear who this was but if he was a well-known and respected player there is every chance he would get more respect for his initial raises than an unknown player, or that opponents might be more prone to do something stupid (like call a reraise) because of the player's reputation.


I still think that the whole thing should be treated as a "thought experiment" which you can use to adjust your normal strategy under certain conditions.


Andy.

Yes - I agree with your "thought experiment" comment. I don't think I'm going to play the system too often. But although it's clear that you need to engage your brain to win at poker, for someone like me who is relatively new to the world of no-limit tournament play, the system seems to provide a pretty solid base from which to build and learn from.

how often did the blinds raise in your tourney? It seems like mathematically if you have enough time to see enough hands it would be tough to blind away. i assume your tourney was a much quicker pace than the wsop.

the system itself gives something that a true beginner could use. like ds says, alterations because of position and the blinds can be made to make it even stronger. let alone table image. i mean, there could be an "inactivity" clause that has you go all-in at the site of the first ace after having folded X number of hands or something. hell, you wouldn't even need an ace.

Mybe I just saw an abnormally low number of system starters + the tourney was online which means it was faster

How about: "When in the SB ingnore any raises from the button; when in the BB also ignore any raises from the cutoff" i.e. treat them as limpers as long as there are no callers/reraisers in between and just move in on them when you got a "system-hand".


cu


Ignatius

I have the book but have yet to read the imfamous "System". I would question not being able to re-raise with QQ vs a steal-raise.


Ken Poklitar

ohKanada@hotmail.com

By design, it is meant for people who know next to nothing about poker.


Why under any circumstance would anyone fold wired queens on the BB to a steal raise? Just to stick to "the system?" If your SOLE motivation was to test the system, ok whatever. By what not try to use you brain a bit and win a poker tournament and some money.


On the idea of learning the System and then "building" a solid poker strategy from there - that is the worst idea I have ever heard. Show me one solid player whose primary play is to move all-in preflop.


The System is a useful thought expirement, and should teach good players to consider adding one weapon to their arsenal - an occasional "risky" all-in move preflop. But the idea of using this as the foundation of a tournament strategy is ridiculous. If that is all you can think of - go back to playing blackjack.

Ok, but what if you don't have a system hand and you check the blind. How do you play on the flop?

It's other use is when you run across someone you can't outplay. When I'm even chips with TJ Cloutier heads up to become the world champion, and I just learned no-limit this year, I'm thinking the system is looking pretty good.

Good question. I guess the answer in the spirit of "The System" would probably be to always move in when your BB isn't raised, as its very point is to avoid "playing a pot" alltogether.


A better approach might be to see the flop and move in on any made hand toppair w/ overcard/top kicker or better and any flush or str8-draw (including gunshots) which is either to the nuts or uses both of your cards. Check-fold otherwise. Use the same rules for turn and river-play.


cu


Ignatius

ELO - I agree with you. I was using it as a bit of fun really - just wanted to see what would happen. Re my statement that it's a good platform to learn from and your assertion that this is nonsense, after thinking about it I realise you are right. But for the beginner it does at least allow the opportunity to sit back and observe while still maintaining some chance of reaching the final table and also helps instill a sense of discipline into their play. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to keep the system in the back of your mind even if you don't use it. For example even if folding queens in the situation you describe is wrong, at least it forces the player to consider it as an option rather than automatically calling or raising.

Anyway, like I said, I'm relatively new to poker (playing just over a year) and especially tournament play. So excuse me if my comments aren't always correct. I'm always happy to be put right by mnore experienced players such as yourself.


All the best

But the system does not call for folding QQ in the blinds to a steal raise. TPFAP says there is additional strategy needed for the blinds, but does not give this strategy. Apparently the critics have not really read this system. If they had they would know that a number of players including the previous winner of the WSOP was quite successful using an all-in system. Its true strength is not known even to its author.

Actually misread ELO's original post. If you read my second post you will see I was not in the big blind with QQ when raised, but on the button. Under the rules of the system this is a fold.