AKs HU vs. a 2+2'er.

[MoreWineII]

($3/$6 Hold'em Kill)
@UltimateBet

SB in this hand is a 2+2'er. I don't believe he knows who I am. Bison's dealie isn't working for me so this is a modified hand history - names have been removed, but it might be kinda messy.

Hero: K /images/graemlins/spade.gif A /images/graemlins/spade.gif


Pre-flop:

1 fold. Hero raises to $6. 5 folds. SB calls. BB folds.

Flop (board: 6d 6c 2h):

SB checks. Hero bets $3. SB raises to $6. Hero calls.

-- See, here's the thing. I know he's going to check-raise me here - even before I hit the bet button. But I just can't help myself. And sure enough, there it is. Now I gotta figure out what that check-raise *means*. Err, knowing what I know, would anyone 3-bet the flop?

Turn (board: 6d 6c 2h 7d):

SB bets $6. Hero calls.

-- Still thinking... /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

River (board: 6d 6c 2h 7d 2d):

SB checks. Hero checks.

-- Okay, I missed - if he bets, I'm throwing in the towel. He's either got me beat or he outplayed me. Oh cool, he didn't bet.

Edit: I'm looking over this and does anybody prefer a 3-bet the flop, take a free turn card (unimproved of course) and then call a river bet? Or fold to a river bet?

[thirddan]

looks like a pocket pair to me, maybe 55 or something similar, i doubt that it is something like AQ since he most likely would 3bet preflop if he didn't konw you were 2+2er and probably wouldn't c/r an unkown with just overs...
I would fold on the turn...

[Trix]

2+2ers rearely coldcall PPs opreflop

[bisonbison]

Wine, I'm actually futzing with the converter again nowadays, so if you PM me the hand, I might actually take a look at it.

[MoreWineII]

My thinking, right or wrong, was that he might play overcards the same way (especially if he flopped one of his suit).

[MoreWineII]

Hope that wasn't coming across as me complaining. <3 the convertor, some nights it's just fussy for me.

Oh, the hand, it's buried somewhere in my folder - no biggie. Unless you're saying my conversion sucked. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[bisonbison]

No, I'm saying that for a couple months I did almost nothing on the converter and now I'm makingtime for it again.

[MoreWineII]

Looks great.

(oh, PM sent)

[thirddan]

that is true, but i think its possible for a hand like 88 to be too good to throw away from the SB if you think there is a good chance that the BB will come along, i think this is preferable to 3betting and isolating out of position...

[Monty Cantsin]

[ QUOTE ]
2+2ers rearely coldcall PPs opreflop

[/ QUOTE ]

Blind defense is such a gaping hole of ignorance in my game. I'm very reluctant to defend my small blind with anything. My FSBtS is 89.06.

Open raise, it's folded around to me: AK and JJ - AA I'm usually 3-betting. Off suit broadway I'm usually throwing away for fear of domination.

But small and medium pocket pairs I am tempted to call with. My thinking is that I have a pair and you probably don't, but I want to see a flop and take it from there. I sort of have a workable default plan which is to bail on a flop with broadway cards and bet or check-raise a raggy flop or turn. Multiway I'm looking to flop a set, heads up my hand often has showdown value. It's just one of the few hands I feel comfortable defending with.

Is this really non-standard?

/mc

[private joker]

While cold-calling PF is rare, medium pocket pairs (66-88) are probably the best hands with which to do it. Once I see that cold-call, that's what I put him on (if he's a good 2+2er, and not some moron who cold-calls with J3s because he's in the blind). That said, I don't mind this line. I don't understand why he didn't value bet the river -- he couldn't have put you on a backdoor flush draw that came in runner-runner.

[Trix]

Was kinda drunk when I wrote the first response, so thought you were in late position.

You beeing in early narrows his range down alot more. He could actually just fold anything below JJ and AK and feel ok about it.

His coldcall preflop is a little weird imo. He wouldnt want to let BB in with 99-QQ. With AA-KK he could flatcall, but usually 3betting people 3bet. So to me it will be KQs often enough to see a showdown without any more info on the guy.

On the flop he knows that you either have a pair or big cards, so if he thinks he can move you off A-high, he can check-raise anything here. If he thinks he can get away from his hand cheaper, ie. you wont 3bet or raise the turn without having him beat, then he can do it too.
He would probably also do it with AA-KK, but also often wait till the turn.

The pot is 8 SBs when he check-raises you on the flop. If he has coldcalled with a pair QQ and below(not 22 or 66), then you will draw out ~25% of the time, meaning you must get 3:1. However, there is a chance that you are ahead here and also a chance that he thinks you are straightforward or weak-tight enough to check-raise you for information or to move you off your hand, which means you may be able to move him off his, as he must think that you wont give action without a big pair.

If you had that pair, you would probably mix it up whether you wait till the turn or 3bet the flop. Mostly you would probably wait till the turn on this board.

Lets say you just call the flop, like you did here and a J or Q comes off, your folding equity will also rise if he has a lower pair. It could pair him, but it´s not like he will 3bet anyway.

On the turn, the pot is 5BBs, so spending two there might be a little too much. Depends how aggro he is on the flop and how loose, aggro and tricky he is preflop.

Calling the turn intending to fold the river is good if you figure that he will give up there. Raising the turn is better than calling turn and river, especially if it´s a card that looks like it helped you.

Given the cost of the turnraise, I think it needs to be saved for very aggro player or players that will lay down often.

Raising the flop is cheaper though, you will be getting 4.5:1 on your money and 11:4 on a showdown.

Raising the flop and betting the turn is probably what you want to do most of the time, so better do it with the big pairs too.

If he is very straightforward yet a little too loose and passive preflop, then raising the flop, taking the free card on the turn and checking or folding the river might be the way to go, though I will rarely do it. If he is very aggro postflop, then you can use it too as he will check-raise you on the turn more often and you arent loosing anything as he will bet the river no matter what he holds.

The line you took is very nice if you know what to do on the river and know that it will be right.

So really, there isn´t a way to play this every time, it will depend on the situation and the opponent. 2+2er is a nice start of a read, but incomplete to determin the best play here.

Anyways, this is what I think people needs to consider when playing this hand.

[Trix]

I thought he was in MP-LP when I first read this, which would make coldcalling worse as he would prefer to play head up with that kind of hand instead of letting BB in with potentially 2 overcards. It also makes it easier to play postflop and increases the chance that the pfr will lay down incorectly or play more passive that optimal if he knew you hand.

In 3/6 against an early postion raise when noone else has called, I dont think the 1$ discount is worth much.

I dont think a default of 3betting JJ+, AK and folding the rest is bad. Then when you read is better you can loosen up some. If you coldcall some hands, then coldcalling AA-KK sometimes is probably a good idea as it will increase your folding equity with the others.
Think about shania /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[MoreWineII]

Opponent had AKo and we chopped.

My dilemma throughout this entire hand was is he raising me with overcards to knock me off of *my* overcards or does he have something like 88 and I'm actually beaten?

I'm still unsure of the best line to take here. I hate playing against other 2+2'ers. Luckily, this was about the only time we butted heads.

[sthief09]

I think both of you guys played it well...