Jeff Kent, HOFer? Roger Clemens, steroid user?

[andyfox]

Yes on Jeff Kent, according to Peter Gammons:

"The Dodgers' signing of Kent is a no-brainer, a chance for a childhood Dodgers fan to end his career in L.A. before moving on to Cooperstown."

On the rocket: Clemens said he didn't have any comment on baseball's steroid controversy. Asked if he thought Barry Bonds' records were tainted because the slugger reportedly testified he took substances that federal prosecutors say are steroids, Clemens said, "No," and took no more questions.

Hmmm . . .

[Uston]

This is coming from the guy who three months ago didn't think Jeff Bagwell was a HOF'er.

[nolanfan34]

My thoughts:

Gammons has repeatedly talked about Kent as a HOFer, and I don't get it. I need to look at his stats compared to some of the other great 2B of all-time, but I don't see him as a shoe-in HOFer. Ryne Sandberg dominated the position for most of the 80s, and that was an era where offensive stats weren't as inflated as they are now. Plus, Sandberg was good with the glove, which Kent wasn't. And Sandberg has struggled so far to get into the Hall, although he might make it in this year.

As for Clemens...

He's always had the reputation for working out hard in the off-season. The fact that he's had a fastball in the 90s his whole career also makes him less likely to have been a user - he's not one of these independent league journeymen who go from throwing in the mid 80s to the mid 90s in one season.

At the same time though, he's also the type that seems shady for some reason. I can't quite put my finger on it, maybe it was the jerking around of the Yanks last year, I'm retired/no I'm not, etc.

Innocent until proven guilty though.

[ThaSaltCracka]

Kent HoF?? Huh?

1039 R, 1910 H, 438 2b, 302 HR, 1207 RBI, .289 BA, .857 OPS

no way in hell those are HoF numbers.

As for Roger on 'roids, I have always had some suspicions.

[Boris]

[ QUOTE ]
He's always had the reputation for working out hard in the off-season.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bonds works hard in the off-season also.

[Paluka]

I guess Bagwell is a HOFer, but I hate voting for the swarm of 90s firstbasemen that look like HOFers. Kent is not there yet. If Kent played in the 80s he would look like a joke compared to Sandberg.

[Boris]

How about this for a rumor: Tony LaRussa is a steroid drug dealer. I mean look what happened to Rolen when he got traded to St. Louis. Look at those freaks he had in Oakland with McGwire and Canseco. Plus I think Pujols is a little too muscle bound to be totally natural.

[Toro]

I had the exact same reaction on Clemens. That was a very suspicious answer. But Clemens has never been accused of being the sharpest knife in the drawer, so I can't figure out if he's totally clean on the steriods and is too stupid to realize that an answer like that makes him look dirty or that he is in fact a user and is stupid too realize that the answer implies that he's dirty. Either way, stupid answer.

[Aceshigh7]

Kent, I do not think he belongs in the hall of fame. I do wish the Astros had kept him though. Maybe now we will move Biggio to 2nd and sign Jose Cruz Jr to play left.

Bagwell, I think is a definite hall of famer. Was the best 1st baseman in the game for quite some time before injuries slowed him down. Continues to grind it out despite having little use in his shoulder. He will have over 500 home runs by the time he's done, and his defense has always been superb.

Clemens, I don't think is a steroid user. I just don't think he needs them. The dude is a freak of nature. And his workouts are grueling. I don't think he would put himself through that if he were on roids.

[jakethebake]

No way Kent is a HOFer. If he makes , they're just being ridiculous. Anyone else notice how much smaller Bagwell is these days. He's still a pretty stou guy, but not like he was a couple of years ago. Any guesses?

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
No way Kent is a HOFer. If he makes , they're just being ridiculous. Anyone else notice how much smaller Bagwell is these days. He's still a pretty stou guy, but not like he was a couple of years ago. Any guesses?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've always thought Bagwell was a possible user. He did play with Caminiti for a while.

It's tough to tell, they're all probably on something.

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He's always had the reputation for working out hard in the off-season.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bonds works hard in the off-season also.

[/ QUOTE ]

He only uses flaxseed oil and you know it.

[Paluka]

Useful article here:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/2004-a-look-back-with-win-shares/

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No way Kent is a HOFer. If he makes , they're just being ridiculous. Anyone else notice how much smaller Bagwell is these days. He's still a pretty stou guy, but not like he was a couple of years ago. Any guesses?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've always thought Bagwell was a possible user. He did play with Caminiti for a while.

It's tough to tell, they're all probably on something.

[/ QUOTE ] Not to single you out Nolan, but this right here is why baseball needs to crack down on this roid mess, immediately. Now anyone that played with known users is immediately suspect. Some of these people may have used them, some may not have, its just to bad. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
Not to single you out Nolan, but this right here is why baseball needs to crack down on this roid mess, immediately. Now anyone that played with known users is immediately suspect. Some of these people may have used them, some may not have, its just to bad. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

No argument there, I agree. The funny thing is, there is a lot of debate as to whether steroids even help with performance on the baseball diamond, and they may help pitchers more than hitters.

Will Carroll had a kick-ass article on the whole issue a couple of days ago on Baseball Prospectus. It was really, really good.

[ThaSaltCracka]

yeah, I don't subscribe though.

As for does it improve performance, I would have to think added strenght to a guy that can already make excellent contact, would probably help them out enourmously.

Anyways, I am getting sidetracked, as for Kent, he has been consistently an above average player his whole career.

[IndieMatty]

Up until 1997 (5 years) he was completely average. No way should this guy go to the hall.

[ThaSaltCracka]

let me put it this way, if Kent gets in, Edgar Martinez is a SHOE IN.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyways, I am getting sidetracked, as for Kent, he has been consistently an above average player his whole career.

[/ QUOTE ]
Above average? Is that all it should take to get into the Hall of Fame? The HOF should be reserved for the greats IMO. They've cheapened it so horribly in all sports. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[ThaSaltCracka]

yeah, above average, and IMO he is not a HoFer

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
yeah, above average, and IMO he is not a HoFer

[/ QUOTE ]
Ah. misunderstood. Thought you were arguing FOR him because he was above average.