Is it ever right to fold AA post flop heads up?

[Karak567]

Say you are 5 handed, but 3 fold and it's just you and another heads up with AA. AA, as usual, has an 80 % chance of winning vs. a random hand heads up. Would it be statistically and logically sound to follow a strategy of NEVER folding AA heads up with another player? Or if there is a one card to a flush or a one card to a straight... is it right to fold?

[dtbog]

Well, if you were to follow that strategy, you'd lose your entire stack 20% of the time, as your opponent would surely know to value-bet his straight against you.

Think of an obvious case. Let's say you make a certain-sized raise before the flop, and you KNOW that your opponent will only call this raise with AA, KK, QQ, or AKs.

The flop comes down QJT. At this point, since you have narrowed down his range of hands, he either has a set, a straight, or an overpair/OESD.

Turn is a 9. At this point, you KNOW you're beat, unless he has AA.

I'd lay it down to a push.

Extrapolate from there. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

-DB

[captZEEbo1]

I folded AA post flop in one funny hand recently. I did a limp utg with it (can work wonders, can be embarassing). It was just me, sb, and bb. The flop came 228 rainbow. I bet min (50 chips), sb called and bb called. Turn, checked around. River sb checks, bb bets 150 (into a 300 pot), I just fold no hesitation, knowing he has the 2. He turns over pocket 2s for the quad 2s, rofl.

[Russ McGinley]

[ QUOTE ]
I folded AA post flop in one funny hand recently. I did a limp utg with it (can work wonders, can be embarassing). It was just me, sb, and bb. The flop came 228 rainbow. I bet min (50 chips), sb called and bb called. Turn, checked around. River sb checks, bb bets 150 (into a 300 pot), I just fold no hesitation, knowing he has the 2. He turns over pocket 2s for the quad 2s, rofl.

[/ QUOTE ]

How did it feel to be TOTALLY WRONG ON YOUR READ! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[AlwaysWrong]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, if you were to follow that strategy, you'd lose your entire stack 20% of the time, as your opponent would surely know to value-bet his straight against you.

[/ QUOTE ]

20% is only if they make it to the showdown. And I think it's more like 15%.

There are obviously times when you'll be sure enough that you're beaten to fold, but it won't be that often. Rare enough that the never fold strategy won't cost you very much, especially if you believe that you fold too often.

If you like to get tricky or play very passively, so that you see the river a lot, then you have to be prepared to fold more.

[eastbay]

If you play it right, it should never be folded. If you play it like an a-hole, it may be right to fold, but rarely.

eastbay

[Cornell Fiji]

[ QUOTE ]
If you play it right, it should never be folded. If you play it like an a-hole, it may be right to fold, but rarely.

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you just say AA should never be folded?

Unless by 'play it right' you mean push in preflop I think this is a pretty rediculous statement.

You make a sizeable raise on the button with red aces and chip leader BB calls and flop comes out K /images/graemlins/spade.gifQ /images/graemlins/spade.gifJ /images/graemlins/spade.gif and chipleader pushes...

and the flop comes out
K /images/graemlins/spade.gifK /images/graemlins/club.gifQ /images/graemlins/spade.gif and the chipleader makes a minimum 'raise me' bet... its a tournament, you auto muck and wait for a better spot

I apologize if you are implying push preflop here but to say AA shouldnt be folded ever is quite assinine and at the very least is terrible advice

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]

I apologize if you are implying push preflop here but to say AA shouldnt be folded ever is quite assinine and at the very least is terrible advice

[/ QUOTE ]

I stand by my statement. There may be very rare instances when folding is not a huge mistake after a non-asinine play, but if someone told me I could never fold aces again HU in a SnG, I certainly wouldn't quit playing, and seriously doubt I could ever detect a change in my ROI. In fact, I'd bet $200 that I haven't folded aces HU in at least 500 SnGs, and I do quite well, thank you very much. I have little doubt that my advice would prevent many beginners from folding in many more places where they should not, as opposed to keeping them from folding when they should.

eastbay

[Allinlife]

[ QUOTE ]
I stand by my statement. There may be very rare instances when folding is not a huge mistake after a non-asinine play, but if someone told me I could never fold aces again HU in a SnG, I certainly wouldn't quit playing, and seriously doubt I could ever detect a change in my ROI. In fact, I'd bet $200 that I haven't folded aces HU in at least 500 SnGs, and I do quite well, thank you very much. I have little doubt that my advice would prevent many beginners from folding in many more places where they should not, as opposed to keeping them from folding when they should.

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]
wow this would have to be the first reply to an opposition I've read that would actually stop an arguement without losing cool. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[poboy]

NO.