Pacific continues to make sure it is the WORST SITE!!

[Equal]

Pacific Poker has decided to continue it's tradition of being the WORST large online poker site by taking YET ANOTHER step backwards.

They have a "Comp Points" system where you would earn 1 bonus point for every $10 you wager on raked hands. 100 Comp points could be converted to $1. For a $15/$30 regular, this could add up to a couple hundreds dollars a month. Of course, the lack of multi-tabling and the slowest deals in online poker ensure that the amount of bonus money you could earn is limited.

What this bonus points scheme amount to was a very TINY rake-back.

For an example of how minor this bonus is: you need to wager $1,000 to earn $1 in bonus money. This means that at 5/10 you need to wager 100 Big Bets to earn $1. Think about how many hundreds of hands it takes to wager 100 Big Bets.

Now I just received this email tonight (emphasis added):

"Dear Peter,

This is John M. from the Operations Department at Cassava (Gibraltar) Ltd. Cassava (Gibraltar) Ltd operates "Pacific Poker".

I am contacting you in regards to your Pacific Poker account.

Our bonus point's scheme in Pacific Poker is a great benefit that we are happy to present to our members. This scheme is not targeted towards expert poker players but rather to help the average player overcome losing streaks.

Please notice that our Bonus Policy states that we reserve the right at our sole discretion, to deny any bonus or promotion, or rescind any policy in respect of that user, either temporarily or permanently. Since you are a very successful poker player (as can be seen from your total winnings), we have decided to stop bonus points from being added to your account.

The current bonus points that you have in your account, can be converted to money and placed into your bankroll until the 20th of December 2004. From this date onwards, although your points will keep accumulating, you will not be able to convert them.

Please note that this by no means will hurt any of your other privileges as a successful player on our site - we congratulate you on all your winnings and we hope to see you continue to prosper in our poker community.


Regards,

John M.

Operations Department"

Am much as I am happy to be called an expert player, I notice Pacific neglects to mention where they decided to draw the line. They could have easily suspended this bonus points system for any winning players (by my Poker Tracker Stats, this could be 40% of players!!)

What a cheap way to save money.

Penalize those that pay you the most rake - THAT's good business.

Pacific, how about an email explaining that you guys fixed the problems with REGULAR random disconnects that have cost many players thousands of dollars? How about fixing the bug where a player can see a the next community card for free - without even calling the previous round's bets! How about fixing the Hand History glitch that shows OTHER PLAYER's hands in my history!

Better yet, how about changing from software that would earn a C- in a Grade 10 Computer Science class?

Thanks Pacific Poker, for once again you take a step backwards while your competitors continue to move forward.

Thank God for Party Poker.

[Tim&Joe]

Tim: Didn't we just read this last night Joe?

Joe: I believe we did Tim.

[Equal]

[ QUOTE ]
Tim: Didn't we just read this last night Joe?

Joe: I believe we did Tim.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pete: Ah, you two are right. Although I surf this site 8 hours a day, I somehow managed to miss the thread on this topic from earlier today. I apoligize.

[Equal]

Do you think Pacific will re-instate the bonus if I go on a big losing streak? What if I manage to lose ALL MY WINNINGS and become a net loser on the site? Will they then?

Somehow I suspect not.

[J LU]

AGREED!!

Pacific sucks.

[Equal]

I love how they conveniently give you only 10 days notice to redeem your bonus right before Christmas, when many people are studying for final exams, or away for vacations.

[EliteNinja]

Wow, that's terrible, man.
I played there all last summer and got all of $2 for my 2000 wagered dollars!!
That's just lame.

[AngryCola]

I can't believe it. You are the 2nd 2+2er today to get such a letter. Actually, who knows how many people from 2+2 received this letter. Two threads in one day tells me I may be getting a letter from them soon. Thankfully, I just cleared a bonus there and made my withdrawl, so maybe they won't bother me.

They really are trying to shoot themselves in the foot.

[Sandstone]

Holy christ, and I thought the Empire VIP program sucked.

Please tell me you sent them some sort of nasty letter about how stupid their program is before they decided to send you that letter kicking you out of their frequent player program.

It would just blow my mind to find out that they're sending these e-mails to people unprovoked. I can see people who wouldn't give two shits about the bonus program suddenly getting very pissed off when they find they've been kicked out of it for absolutely no reason.

[Equal]

[ QUOTE ]
Holy christ, and I thought the Empire VIP program sucked.

Please tell me you sent them some sort of nasty letter about how stupid their program is before they decided to send you that letter kicking you out of their frequent player program.

It would just blow my mind to find out that they're sending these e-mails to people unprovoked. I can see people who wouldn't give two shits about the bonus program suddenly getting very pissed off when they find they've been kicked out of it for absolutely no reason.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, didnt say a single peep about the program. I will definitely send them an email about this though.

[Cardzy]

LOL, Like they are really saving themselves a ton of money by doing this too. Let's see, you pay how much in rake to wager say $2,000? And they give you $2 back of that amount. Wow, That sure has to hurt the business enough that we better stop giving it to as many players as we can. Bright move Pacific!

I've had and still have so many bonuses at Pacific that it isn't funny. I still have $350 worth that are not cleared and I need to clear by Jan. (and it isn't happening) I deposited $220 there and withdrew $770 2 weeks later. I'm within 64 points (or $640 wagered) from clearing another $150 (playing on their money), but I am so sick of playing there it isn't funny. I pretty much gave up and started playing exclusively on Empire.

There point system is a total joke. $1 back for $1000 wagered. Wow, I thought I wasn't impressed when I saw it the first time, now that they are taking that "awesome" benefit away from players, I'm much more impressed. Not!

[DeucesUp]

I figured I wouldn't be the only one to get this email, and I'm sure you won't be the last. Looks like it's a new policy they've implimented. Brilliant marketing team they have over there at Pacific.

Welcome to the "Undesirable Pacific Winners Club".

[Rudbaeck]

So basically they decided to piss off their most loyal customers, who also most likely contribute a big share of the rake?

Only one thing to do: Take your business elsewhere.

[MicroBob]

Where did you get all these Pacific bonuses?

I don't think they've offered a reload since August during their little 'Happy Hours' promotion which they only did twice.

[Peter Harris]

I just want to say, whilst this thread is at that top, that i am enjoying every second of Tim&Joe's comments.

You guys rock the free world.

Regards,
Pete Harris

[MicroBob]

i already said similar in a different post regarding Tim & Joe.
I like those guys for some reason.


Reminds of the radio-show and syndicated column 'Car-Talk'.
Perhaps that was the original motivator for these loonies.

You go Tim!!
You too Joe!!

[Russ McGinley]

[ QUOTE ]
Our bonus point's scheme in Pacific Poker is a great benefit that we are happy to present to our members.

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I the only one who thinks this was funny given the circumstances?

[mistrpug]

[ QUOTE ]
I just want to say, whilst this thread is at that top, that i am enjoying every second of Tim&Joe's comments.


[/ QUOTE ]

Back when I was in college, me (Tim) and my friend Joe wrote a short-lived comic on the school newspaper called the Tim and Joe Show. How is this relevant? It's not.

[HesseJam]

These guys are ridiculous. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif Their "bonus" amounts almost to nothing anyway.

[Rah]

This is extremely fascinating. I would like to hear the reasoning behind this decision.

[TylerD]

Sounds like there ripping off The Adam and Joe show which was mildly popular here a few years back.

[MicroBob]

I know a craps dealer who's name is Tim Joe.
I'm not kidding.

[Nekura]

"Business" decisions like this aren't new or unique.

For instance, just before Christmas last year Circuit City decided to cut down their costs by firing everyone with better than average commissions. In other words, they fired all of their best performing sales people.

I signed up at Pacific to take advantage of PokerMama's free book offer. (Plus, I just started playing on-line for real money and wanted to make the rounds to few different sites to see how they "feel"). Their interface is really lacking (I can't even figure out how to change my password from the default) and you can't export your hand history. I think I'm going to pull up stakes (no pun intended) after my 250 hands are done.

[westmt01]

This is just a bump because I'd like to know the answer to this as well. I haven't played at Pacific since the July "Happy Hour" bonus, and I will consider going back IF and ONLY IF they have another reload bonus.

Also, for people who have played there recently, is the play ay 1/2 and 2/4 getting any better? I always felt the players at Pacific were the absolute worst on the Net, but I heard recently that they play isn't as bad as it used to be. Can anyone confirm or dispute this?

Other than the poor quality of play, I completely agree that Pacific is by far the worst poker site on the Net.

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
Where did you get all these Pacific bonuses?

I don't think they've offered a reload since August during their little 'Happy Hours' promotion which they only did twice.

[/ QUOTE ]

At the end of September, I got the following e-mail from Pacific:

[ QUOTE ]
Deposit at least $50 to your Pacific Poker Account and receive an instant one time $25 Bonus within 15 minutes of your approved deposit! This unbeatable offer cannot be found at any other Online Poker Room.

Don't miss out, Deposit Now!


[/ QUOTE ]

I did it and sure, enough, free $25. It's not much, but I can't complain since there were no strings attached.

[SamJack]

Pacific sucks, we all agree on that for its slow software, no multi-table, etc.

Not now, we know that it doesn't only suck, it is stupid.

I think it may be worth it for you (and the other 2+2'er who got the same e-mail) to send them an e-mail explaining how this is a stupid business decision. They are pissing off their most royal customers. Poker is not like other casino games. Why should they care how much money you win? It is not their money! They should only care about the rake. I know it can be frustrating to trying to explain logically to an idiot, but perhaps you guys should give it a shot.

Thanks,

SamJack

[bpb]

[ QUOTE ]
This is extremely fascinating. I would like to hear the reasoning behind this decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's one plausible theory.

Pacific is the poker-side of Casino-On-Net, one of the largest casinos out there. If a player drops a $1,000 at CON, they make $1,000 in profit. If a player drops a $1,000 at Pacific 10/20, they make about $25 in rake.

As long as Pacific consists of random gamblers at the same skill level, just pushing pots back and forth, CON/Pacific wins. But sharks in the pond screw everything up. They take money away from the gamblers that would have been spent on the more lucrative casino side.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is part of a new initiative to push out the good players at Pacific.

[slickpoppa]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is extremely fascinating. I would like to hear the reasoning behind this decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's one plausible theory.

Pacific is the poker-side of Casino-On-Net, one of the largest casinos out there. If a player drops a $1,000 at CON, they make $1,000 in profit. If a player drops a $1,000 at Pacific 10/20, they make about $25 in rake.

As long as Pacific consists of random gamblers at the same skill level, just pushing pots back and forth, CON/Pacific wins. But sharks in the pond screw everything up. They take money away from the gamblers that would have been spent on the more lucrative casino side.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is part of a new initiative to push out the good players at Pacific.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you're on to somethign there. But that theory seems to be contadicted by their decision to offer 30-60 games. Those will break the fish even faster than usual.

[gusly]

[ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't be surprised if this is part of a new initiative to push out the good players at Pacific.


[/ QUOTE ]

I have to agree with this. Pretty transparent.

[mistrpug]

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't be surprised if this is part of a new initiative to push out the good players at Pacific.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know about others who play at Pacific, but this is fine by me. They're bonus points was pretty crappy anyway. If they take it away from me, and it causes a few good players to leave the site, that's fine by me.

[DeucesUp]

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't be surprised if this is part of a new initiative to push out the good players at Pacific.

[/ QUOTE ]

I considered this, but it doesn't really make sense (of course that doesn't mean it isn't the thinking behind Pacific's decision /images/graemlins/grin.gif) because in poker there will always be good players who are taking money off the table. Remove the best players and the break-even players become winners. If they reduce the skill differential between best and worst the money gets passed around a little more, but it can't make much of a difference and its unlikely it can compensate for having fewer players at tables.

BTW, Pacific management responded to my question asking them to explain their decision. Not too interesting, but I'll post a copy in the other thread on this topic (since I started that thread, makes sense to keep it all together).

Marketing genius from pacific poker - NOT (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1364538&page=2&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1)

[Cardzy]

I signed up under an affiliate and got an extra $50 from him. Then I got $55 for deposit bonus. Then I got an email for a free $25 if I redeposit, so I put the $50 from affiliate in for that one. Then they had a big "refer-a-friend" bonus where they give you $150 and your friend $50 for each friend referred. I referred 3 people. Huge bonuses for that one.

[Equal]

Let's look at the positive spin on this:

1 - Pacific deems your account a "expert" player and you lose the bonus money.

2 - This doubles the incentive to create a NEW, FAKE account as Pacific is NOW PAYING YOU MONEY TO DO THIS.

3 - You can now get rakeback off the new account that you created!

Win-win situation for EVEYONE! Hooray!

[mosta]

considering how not only arbitrary and stupid, but desperate, this ploy sounds, I'm scared about all the money I have on deposit there. I'm going to make a sizable cash out right now.

[AngryCola]

I sent Pacific an e-mail informing them of my awareness of these form letters being sent out to winning players.

I told them that this was unacceptable and I would not be playing on their site again. That's not a problem for me, as I wasn't going to be doing that anyway. I have already cleared all the bonuses I care to get.

[Equal]

[ QUOTE ]
I sent Pacific an e-mail informing them of my awareness of these form letters being sent out to winning players.

I told them that this was unacceptable and I would not be playing on their site again. That's not a problem for me, as I wasn't going to be doing that anyway. I have already cleared all the bonuses I care to get.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Cola for the support.

[Mangatang]

I'm somewhat disappointed that Pacific doesn't deem me an "expert" player. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif I have cleared more than $15,000 profit from them this year, yet I haven't received the e-mail yet. Actually, playing $15/30, you can make a not insignificant bonus per month using the bonus points, so I hope they don't notice my "expert" play.

I think SamJack was on to something when he mentioned that they are first and foremost an online casino. I don't think they have a poker-knowledgeable person on their staff. Just to prove my point, take a look at part of their affiliate team's response to my question about my revenue share payment. I couldn't believe my eyes when I read it:

As for your questions. Under the Revshare plan we're considered partners, we share the costs of both wins and loss of your players.

When you see a day where there's a bigger negative number than bonuses this means your players won a rather big amount, and you share the costs with Pacific.

Partners all the way.

Believe me when I say, they got an earful from me in a nice little email (not that they could understand a word I said).

[Freakin]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm somewhat disappointed that Pacific doesn't deem me an "expert" player. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif I have cleared more than $15,000 profit from them this year, yet I haven't received the e-mail yet. Actually, playing $15/30, you can make a not insignificant bonus per month using the bonus points, so I hope they don't notice my "expert" play.

I think SamJack was on to something when he mentioned that they are first and foremost an online casino. I don't think they have a poker-knowledgeable person on their staff. Just to prove my point, take a look at part of their affiliate team's response to my question about my revenue share payment. I couldn't believe my eyes when I read it:

As for your questions. Under the Revshare plan we're considered partners, we share the costs of both wins and loss of your players.

When you see a day where there's a bigger negative number than bonuses this means your players won a rather big amount, and you share the costs with Pacific.

Partners all the way.

Believe me when I say, they got an earful from me in a nice little email (not that they could understand a word I said).

[/ QUOTE ]

Quick! Hide your affiliate banners!

That is the biggest piece of crap deal I could ever imagine. Another obvious sign that they're just a casino at heart.

Freakin

[Equal]

Jeez... I dont even know how I respond to that email. "Partners all the way"? WTF is that lol?

[Mangatang]

I know! It's been three days now, and they haven't replied to my email yet when I tried to explain to them that the house makes money off of rake, not off of player's losses.

They don't even understand their own rules and regulations:

For these purposes the term "Gross Revenue" shall mean the sum total of all Real New Players' contributions to "rakes" the Real New Players were involved in while playing at Our Site, less any credits, bonus or promotional amounts given to Real New Players, chargebacks or any uncollectable revenue attributable to the Real New Players. A Real New Player's contribution to a "rake" shall be determined by multiplying the quotient obtained when dividing the actual amount to a hand contributed by the Real New Player by the total bet of each hand, by the total "rake" of the hand in question. For example, if the Real New Player's contribution to the hand is two Dollars ($2.00) and the total bet in the hand is ten Dollars ($10.00) and the "rake" of the hand in question is one Dollar ($1.00), the Real New Player's contribution to the rake will be twenty cents ($0.20).

I guess that also explains why they're the only site that base their bonus clearing requirements off of amount wagered instead of number of raked hands.

[flafishy]

Give it up. Nobody's listening.

[largeeyes]

[ QUOTE ]
Give it up. Nobody's listening.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why in the world did you bump a 3 day old thread for this?