Step 5 Hand versus GIGABET [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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Lmn55d

12-09-2004, 08:27 PM

Hey I posted this in MTT too...not sure where it should go, but would like to get your opinions as well.

This hand was played in step 5 of party step tourney (2table). Blinds going up to 50/100 next hand. Villain is gigabet. Table is 6 handed, about 11-12 left in tourney. From my read, Gig is a very aggressive player who would make this raise with a wide range of hands. I thought that he'd fold a lot of the hands that would be close to a coinflip considering he was only getting 1.4:1 and because I had played very tightly, but I guess this last part of my read was wrong seeing that he called with JK. Was my push a good play?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t820)
UTG (t1065)
MP (t1255)
CO (t2200)
Button (t2500)
SB (t475)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, MP folds, CO folds, Button raises to t125, SB folds, Hero raises to t820 (All-In), Button calls t695.

Flop: (t1665) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t1665) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t1665) K/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t1665

Results in white below: 
Hero has 9h As (high card, ace).
Button has Jh Kd (two pair, kings and jacks).
Outcome: Button wins t1665.

The Yugoslavian

12-09-2004, 08:41 PM

Hmm, interesting play by Gigabet. This move by him turns out to be slightly +CEV as he's 1.36 to 1 dog and getting over 1.4 to 1 odds. However, I too am surprised he called here with KJo. It could be that there were some meta-considerations that he took into account (given who else was at the table) since he plays against the same ppl in those STEP 5s like all day every day. This can't be a +$EV move given even a very loose range of hands by you. However, I do not regularly play such high stakes and defending your preflop raises may be too important. Frankly, there is a good chance he put you on a low pocket pair in which case he's only a 1.16 to 1 dog giving him a higher CEV.

Of course, him being a bot probably had something to do with it /images/graemlins/tongue.gif.

KingMedicine

12-09-2004, 09:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Of course, him being a bot probably had something to do with it /images/graemlins/tongue.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

gigabot

Desdia72

12-09-2004, 09:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hey I posted this in MTT too...not sure where it should go, but would like to get your opinions as well.

This hand was played in step 5 of party step tourney (2table). Blinds going up to 50/100 next hand. Villain is gigabet. Table is 6 handed, about 11-12 left in tourney. From my read, Gig is a very aggressive player who would make this raise with a wide range of hands. I thought that he'd fold a lot of the hands that would be close to a coinflip considering he was only getting 1.4:1 and because I had played very tightly, but I guess this last part of my read was wrong seeing that he called with JK. Was my push a good play?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t820)
UTG (t1065)
MP (t1255)
CO (t2200)
Button (t2500)
SB (t475)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, MP folds, CO folds, Button raises to t125, SB folds, Hero raises to t820 (All-In), Button calls t695.

Flop: (t1665) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t1665) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t1665) K/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t1665

Results in white below: 
Hero has 9h As (high card, ace).
Button has Jh Kd (two pair, kings and jacks).
Outcome: Button wins t1665. 

[/ QUOTE ]

very interesting. i'd like to hear his response.

DonkeyKong

12-09-2004, 10:00 PM

Marginal play by Gigabet. Not bad, not good. Guess he felt like gambling.

KJ only crappy vs the real premium hands and AJ/KQ. He probably thought you likely to make this play with any A or any pair given your stack.

This was kind of a Gus Hansen call -- making the marginal call to gather chips quickly and then run over the table...

Paragon

12-09-2004, 10:37 PM

From my limited experience I'd agree here. The fact Gigabet is the big stack probably means he is far more willing to make marginal calls, since winning gives him a huge advantage over a shorthanded table, while losing is not disastrous. Also, I think showing his willingness to call the desperate shortstack allin steals only makes him a stronger table bully.

PrayingMantis

12-09-2004, 10:50 PM

Without being there, I can tell you that a reraise all-in by a dwindling stack (edit: not a desperate stack necessarily, but in the hands of someone who's looking to gain some chips) on the BB, who's closing the action and is a smart player in some sense, could mean many things. And so, KJ isn't necessarily very far behind, and can actually be ahead many times (not to mention villain has you covered pretty well). The fact that you've played a tight game up until that point doesn't mean you can't push against a very aggressive player, who might open-raise with anything, and fold to enough pressure (but not here, apparantly). I can see strong players doing this push of yours with complete trash (any two live cards), in certain circumstances.

The play in the highest limits is never so simple as "what are my odds, he's a tight player, I should fold, etc". That's why it is high limits, and that's why you sometimes see some very crazy play at such tables.

I'm not trying to defend gigabet or anything, he had his reasons for making this call I'm sure, and he could have been wrong of course. Only some thoughts about this general situation.

FishBurger

12-09-2004, 10:59 PM

In one of the tourneys today, his allin with KJ preflop against the other guy's A(Q or J, can't remember) won him first place and $9,000. Maybe he has a fondness for KJ today. I know I would.

Gigabet

12-09-2004, 11:04 PM

look in multi table forum for response

Apathy

12-10-2004, 12:16 AM

Funny how everyone in the MTT forum attack Gigabets play as idiotic and here everyone defended it. In my opinion this forum gives much more thought out responses and consideration to posts, I think Gigabets call has a lot of merit and I am glad to see some in this forum actually consider it before just dismissing it as stupid as many in the MTT forum did.

ethan

12-10-2004, 01:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
look in multi table forum for response

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's a link (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1366229&page=1&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=&vc=1) to the thread in the MTT forum. The reasoning behind the call is worth a read, and I think it makes a lot of sense.

SuitedSixes

12-10-2004, 05:00 AM

I'll echo this sentiment . . . I think that this is the smartest of the non-theory/non-psyche forums. Lots of intelligent people willing to share advice. Let's hope it stays that way!

DrGonzo

12-24-2004, 08:07 AM

I think the reasoning for making the call does make sense, though it sounds like a borderline decision.

What I wonder is, why not push in the whole stack instead of making the small raise and then calling the re-raise? In this case, you know that you will call if either the SB or the BB re-raises you.

You may argue that this gives up too much information, since you would make a smaller raise with a hand that does not want a call. I don't think that is true in this situation. If you call a re-raise with KJ, you call a re-raise with any hand that you would make the initial raise with. Right?

mikey checks

12-24-2004, 09:49 PM

I happen to be a newish player to the concept of analyzing poker ... I hope noone is overlooking the concept of GAMBLING at this point...
.

Giga plays probably 100 step 5 tourneys a week and a KJ call is the equivalent of an allin with 2 high cards...he's trying to catch a short stack with a small pair of Ax....and he was right...nice play regardless.