Doyle Brunson and suited connectors

[spurgeon]

I was reading a book called The Biggest game in town by A. Alvarez. He said that in the old days they never played suited connectors. I guess Johnny Moss did not play the suited connectors much. They always had big cards or a big pair when they raised. Doyle Brunson changed that style. He would play 6-7 suited and if he did not hit the flop, he would fold every time. If he hit the flop big, such as two pair or a flush, then he would crack the other players pocket queens. Doyle says that he likes the small suited connectors best. Tom Mcevoy and T. J. Cloutier on the other hand say to stay away from drawing hands. Well, who do you think is right?

[pokerjo22]

McEvoy. No wait Brunson. Maybe Cloutier. Actually probably Alvarez.

[Francis]

An interesting question.

I think it's hard to say one is 'right' and the other 'wrong'. They're all way way more successful players than I'll every be.

I'd say however, the answer is 'it depends'.

- texture of the table and players
- how good your postflop play is
- position, image, etc., all will affect your success w/these.

For the math based answer, you can check out the EV hands chart, and see what what it says. I suspect it'll say small connected suitors are a loser. However, it be interesting to see the results for top players to see if that's still true.

The neat things about these cards, is if they hit the flop, that means your opponents didn't, and you've most likely got the nuts.

It's possible they are indeed long term losers, and for decades Brunson has been leaking away some EV... Or maybe in certain types of games (NL?) they hit enough to make them profitable...

Who knows?

Francis

[gummy d]

I think two things here are important. the game needs to be no limit in my opinion, the suited connector needs to get in cheap relative to chip stacks, and its nice to know that your opponent will get married to his Ks or As and pay you off. personally i think small pairs are better for this in nl, ie. hitting a set and doubling through.
my two cents
gummy d /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[amulet]

so much depend on the game.

however you are getting mixed up in what your reading. brunson is writing about cash games, cloutier is discussing tournaments.

[TonyBlair]

The reason Brunson likes (suited) connectors is because it suits his style of play. He plays where the money is deep and is always looking for a good opportunity to get the chips in and put some real pressure on an opponent. You can't do that with small pairs unless you hit as you only have 2 outs after the flop. Connectors can give you a great draw that remains relatively hidden.

For me it all depends on stack sizes. The smaller the stacks in relation to the blinds, the more you want the big cards.