Opening Standards with a Calling Station

[Intrepid]

Suppose you are in a limit hold'em game in which all of your opponents are fairly average with the exception of Archibald. Archibald plays 100% of his hands in unraised pots, and 80% of his hands in raised pots. He also is quite tenacious in his post-flop play. If you are in middle position and Archibald is on the button, how should his presence affect the range of hands with which you will open-raise? How would your open-raising standards from middle position be affected if Archibald was in one of the blind positions?

Thanks

[Joe Tall]

Doesn't change a thing for me. I still raise JTs, A8s after limpers in LMP in front of him.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[Lost Wages]

I think he is talking about raising first in.

Lost Wages

[Joe Tall]

I think he is talking about raising first in.

Eh, my point was; it doesn't matter. We raise for value if he's going to call every hand, so be it.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[Lost Wages]

Some of the value of raising first in from MP is from steal equity. If you are sure that you are going to be called, especially by a player that has position on you, then that value is gone.

Lost Wages

[Trix]

Unless the blinds are supertight or the guy will lay down too often or play very predictable postflop, then I tighten up.

[PokerMike]

If you know he will call with the top 80% of hands, doesn't this info give you an edge on him? And to exploit it you raise with more hands? Can someone please explain why this is right/wrong.

[Joe Tall]

Some of the value of raising first in from MP is from steal equity.. If you are sure that you are going to be called, especially by a player that has position on you, then that value is gone.

Look, I'm not stealing w/J9o but he is calling with it. Get it.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[Joe Tall]

Trix,

Unless the blinds are supertight or the guy will lay down too often or play very predictable postflop, then I tighten up

Why are you rasing in the first place?

Peace,
Joe Tall

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
Suppose you are in a limit hold'em game in which all of your opponents are fairly average with the exception of Archibald. Archibald plays 100% of his hands in unraised pots, and 80% of his hands in raised pots. He also is quite tenacious in his post-flop play. If you are in middle position and Archibald is on the button, how should his presence affect the range of hands with which you will open-raise? How would your open-raising standards from middle position be affected if Archibald was in one of the blind positions?

[/ QUOTE ]
Let me preface my answer by emphasizing that we are discussing marginal hands. Everyone is going to open-raise AA and I would be ecstatic to have Archibald donate his money after I do. But we are discussing hands that are so weak there is doubt as to whether we should even be playing them at all.

Archibald should cause you to open-limp with more hands, both hands you would normally fold and hands you would normally raise. Why?

1. Archibald is a loose/passsive idiot after the flop. It's important to see as many flops as you can to fully exploit this. That means playing a few hands you would normally fold.

2. Raising preflop doesn't limit the field as well as usual. Open-raising a weakish hand from MP is partially an attempt to steal the blinds or play heads up. That just isn't likely to work out here.

3. Archibald's postflop play reduces the value of a preflop raise. Playing well postflop versus a calling station means making lots of money while losing many pots you could have won by being more "tenacious". The percentage of pots you win is substantially reduced and that reduces the EV of putting in extra bets preflop as opposed to just calling.

[Demana]

You can also use Archibald's tenacity to your advantage when cleaning up your outs or building pots with check/raises.

Sounds like the "maniac is on your left, how do you play?" question, only it is focused on postflop play rather than preflop play.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
I think he is talking about raising first in.

Eh, my point was; it doesn't matter. We raise for value if he's going to call every hand, so be it.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[/ QUOTE ]


wouldn't you tend to raise more big cards and pocket pairs since you're usually going to be 2-4 handed with him in the pot?

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
Unless the blinds are supertight or the guy will lay down too often or play very predictable postflop, then I tighten up.

[/ QUOTE ]


I don't get why you'd tighten up. in a tournament, I might tighten up, since you want to wait for more +EV situations. here, raising, knowing that he'll call with any 2 suited or connected, a ton of hands are +EV. also if he's a calling station postflop, there's even more +EV

[PokerMike]

Well said, sir.

[Intrepid]

Thank you for the thoughtful response. I agree with the reasons you give for raising less and limping more with Archie on the button.

[ QUOTE ]

Let me preface my answer by emphasizing that we are discussing marginal hands. ...we are discussing hands that are so weak there is doubt as to whether we should even be playing them at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you certain the loss of blind stealing equity is so inconsequential that you should not fold any hands that would be clearly playable if Archibald were an average player?

[ QUOTE ]
Archibald should cause you to open-limp with more hands, both hands you would normally fold and hands you would normally raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with limping more when Archie is on the button. However, I question whether we should play more hands than usual in this situation. Although Archie is bad, so will be our position when we limp in. What are the normally unplayable hands with which you would recommend open-limping?

When Archibald has the big blind, I would be inclined to open-raise nearly all the time (with playable hands) in hope of getting heads-up. If he were in the small blind, I would be more inclined to limp with good multiway hands. Do you recommend opening with more hands than normal when a calling station is in the blinds?

[ QUOTE ]

3. Archibald's postflop play reduces the value of a preflop raise. Playing well postflop versus a calling station means making lots of money while losing many pots you could have won by being more "tenacious". The percentage of pots you win is substantially reduced and that reduces the EV of putting in extra bets preflop as opposed to just calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point.