laying down KK early in a step 5 tournament.

[JasonA]

Thoughts on this hand?? i consider myself to be a good player and prefer to try and out play my opponents then run all in preflop...albeit i had kk and the only hand i'm afraid of is AA but thats the hand he's representing. i didn't make a very big raise preflop. so thoughts?


***** Hand History for Game 1274151288 *****
NL Hold'em Trny:7740663 Level:4 Blinds (25/50) - Wednesday, December 08, 03:29:41 EDT 2004
Table 5th Steps 2-Table(159432) Table #1 (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: Lifelesss ( $620 )
Seat 2: kefai ( $980 )
Seat 3: YouOutdrewMe ( $1370 )
Seat 6: AnosaJ ( $1730 )
Seat 7: BIGKNOCKERz ( $2560 )
Seat 8: j7m1o7 ( $1190 )
Seat 9: Resolute78 ( $750 )
Seat 10: TiltedRetard ( $800 )
Trny:7740663 Level:4
Blinds (25/50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to AnosaJ [ Kd Ks ]
YouOutdrewMe calls [50].
AnosaJ raises [150].
BIGKNOCKERz folds.
j7m1o7 folds.
Resolute78 calls [150].
TiltedRetard folds.
Lifelesss folds.
kefai folds.
YouOutdrewMe is all-In.
AnosaJ folds.
Resolute78 folds.
YouOutdrewMe does not show cards.
YouOutdrewMe wins 1745 chips

[niwotyalpi]

Well... This tourney pays 1-4....Ridiculous fold in my mind. If your not gonna make your stand with this hand then what are u gonna make your stand with. And FWIW, I finished 5th last night in step 5, so I am familiar with the competition and the tournament. You have to call period in my mind. If he turns over AA then oh well you swallow hard and play again. JMO

[Gramps]

Bad laydown Phil. Players will make this play with AK, QQ, some other hands even.

Also, if he had AA, there's a decent chance he wouldn't push (given the pot size and your chip stacks), but would make a decent reraise instead (and probably push the flop). The push here seems to call out "AK."

[Myst]

Never lay down KK. Esp against good players.

[Pepsquad]

This fold makes me ill. He could just as easily have a number of hands you have dominated. Or lord only knows if he's crazy enough. IMO you missed a huge opportunity.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
Bad laydown Phil. Players will make this play with AK, QQ, some other hands even.

Also, if he had AA, there's a decent chance he wouldn't push (given the pot size and your chip stacks), but would make a decent reraise instead (and probably push the flop). The push here seems to call out "AK."

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts precisely.

eastbay

[Daliman]

Ok, I'm only going to scream this once...



NEVER LAY DOWN KK OR AA PREFLOP! DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!

WAY too many people outthink themselves. I assure you, the instances are where it is actually proper to fold either of these hands is in the single digits over your poker life.

Call, and live with the results.

[Equal]

Does anyone agree with this laydown?

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to AnosaJ [ Kd Ks ]
YouOutdrewMe calls [50].
AnosaJ raises [150].
BIGKNOCKERz folds.
j7m1o7 folds.
Resolute78 calls [150].
TiltedRetard folds.
Lifelesss folds.
kefai folds.
YouOutdrewMe is all-In.
AnosaJ folds.


[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/mad.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Pah, if you do this you must be playing too high.

Man that is some awful [censored].

Mack

[jcm4ccc]

no

[Chief911]

There are people who would make that play with ANY pocket pair, as well as AK and possibly even AQ. You must call this. I'd say less than 5% of the time is this AA.

Nick

[itsmarty]

I'm surprised more people didn't comment on the min raise.

Martin

[bigredlemon]

You're going to have to gamble sooner or later. I'd rather do it while i'm holding kings.

[soko]

It's been said already but,

WORST. FOLD. EVER.

....what were you thinking?!

[The Yugoslavian]

What minraise?? Are you talking about the preflop limp by villian?

I think this play by villian also reeks of AK and probably not AA. It seems the hero definitely out-thought himself. If you're afraid of going out to AA with so much $$ on the line you are probably playing over your head.

Yugoslav

[adanthar]

All I can say is I hope I run into a bunch of people playing like this when I play mine.

[jojobinks]

old boy had it right when he said you were playing too high. i can't imagine laying this down at a buy-in i was comfortable with. i guess i could at a step 5, and that's why i don't play 'em.

[DVC Calif]

Hi Jason -

I have to agree with everyone else that this was a weak-tight laydown. Most anytime you can get all your chips in the middle with AA/KK, you should (exception possibly being bubble situations). KK is the second best starting hand one can get and should be played as such.

Did you have specific reads or player notes on Villain to think that he would limp pocket Aces UTG, hoping to trap? I know there are tricky types who min-raise AA but limping? That makes it too cheap for the blinds to possibly make two pair with their rags, and making AA as valuable as 72o.

I think this feels more like AK wanting to buy the pot or see all five cards. If it was AA, I think Vilain would make a re-raise about potsize (t400). This would price drawing hands while still making it attractive enough to call. I personally don't want to just win the pot with AA... I want that hand to pay me off with as many chips as possible.

And even if it was AA, you might have cracked his PP with a set, or some backdoor straight or flush draws. (Those crazy beats happen all the time on Party.) And you would not have been busted out as you had him covered.

I hope you went on to make the money later in the tourney because that's the only excuse you can make about laying this down.

Steve

[assron]

having played this particular villain a lot of times, I'll agree that this was a pretty terrible fold. it's equally likely that his starting hand isnt that great and he's trying to push you around the table. I'd read anything from 88-AA and AQ, AK. You gotta make this call.

[raptor517]

i can understand why you wanted to fold. i limp reraise all in a LOT with AA and KK. people pay off with all kinds of [censored] if they are the initial raiser. however, i have not, and never will fold AA or KK preflop on the internet. period. people do limp reraise with AK a lot, as well as smaller pairs. i think maybe, at best, he has a 1/3 chance to have AA. at best. ya gotta make that call.