How to lose a pot 101

[bernie]

Not sure how much can be gleened from this. But i see this all the time in my games.

Mucks 10-20, gravy game

5 see the flop for 1 bet. Im in sb and completed with 97s.

Flop: 6 T Q r

Blinds check to UTG who bets, UTG1 calls, MP calls, i call, BB folds. 4 to the turn.

Turn 7

I check, UTG bets, UTG1 calls, i call.

River 9

I bet, UTG swears and near slams his chips in, UTG1 calls rather gingerly. Which is good because had he raised, i'd probably had to fold.

Why not c/r the river? UTG would likely have checked the river through as he can be scared of monsters, especially a i card str8. UTG1 was pretty passive overall.

MHIG

UTG didn't show, but was very perturbed. UTG1 had KQo (hence the title of the post).
One thing i love about hands like these is that it really looks like you sucked out on a runner.

b

[Joe Tall]

Your flop call is weak, especially if there is not one of your suit.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[Demana]

So this is an implied odds hand for us to learn from?

It is a gravy game, where you know if you hit your 8 you will be payed off, so you can call the flop with improper pot odds (8:1 needing 11:1, but correct implied odds as they will call your bet if you make it) and when you catch your 7, your outs have increased enough that you can call the turn bet figuring now all your outs are good if you hit.

UTG1 needs to raise that turn to get rid of you.

And boy oh boy do I love a good table /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Ni han, sir!

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Your flop call is weak, especially if there is not one of your suit.


[/ QUOTE ]

The flop call is a no brainer. Im getting 8-1 on an 11-1. The extra 3 i need i would easily make up for if i hit my turn card since i will have an easy c/r that will collect 4-8 bets alone.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
So this is an implied odds hand for us to learn from?


[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if that works for ya, cool. Actually it was in watching how people check/call their way out of a pot. Along with how making a hand this way makes you look like a loose chaser.

[ QUOTE ]
where you know if you hit your 8 you will be payed off, so you can call the flop with improper pot odds (8:1 needing 11:1, but correct implied odds as they will call your bet if you make it)

[/ QUOTE ]

Most games i would make this call. Especially with 3 players already in. I'd be cutting it close with only 2 opponents in on the flop. Probably fold then.

[ QUOTE ]
and when you catch your 7, your outs have increased enough that you can call the turn bet figuring now all your outs are good if you hit.


[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't really like the 7, but i couldn't fold. I was hoping for an 8 or getting rid of it on the turn. On the end, i knew UTG didn't have the str8. I wasn't so sure about the other guy. The way the UTG called, i thought maybe he had a bigger 2 pair. I wasn't really sure if i'd get the pot when everyone called.

[ QUOTE ]
UTG1 needs to raise that turn to get rid of you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, he had 3 chances to do it. It would've been a tough call on the turn if he raised there. I probably would've folded incorrectly given his hand. (I have the equivalent of a flush draw) Not sure what he was waiting for. At showdown he showed me his cards in a way that said, 'Nice way to crack my hand'.

b

[Joe Tall]

The flop call is a no brainer. Im getting 8-1 on an 11-1. The extra 3 i need i would easily make up for if i hit my turn card since i will have an easy c/r that will collect 4-8 bets alone.

Bull.

You are not drawing to the nuts, not completely closing the action and you have no pair outs. IT'S THIN.

Peace,
Joe tall

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
You are not drawing to the nuts,

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't have to be drawing to the nuts. You just have to be pretty sure if you hit your hand it will be good. Add a little for a redraw. It's unlikely someone has J9 since i have a 9. Not impossible, by any means, but unlikely. So an 8 is a great card for me.

[ QUOTE ]
not completely closing the action

[/ QUOTE ]

I have 1 player behind me to close the action. Not that it matters, but he hasn't checkraised all night. Im also in near perfect position to maximize the turn if i hit.

Sorry, you don't need the full 11-1 to make this call on the flop.

b

[Demana]

I just posted in the psychology forum (excuses people use for being losers) about the same sort of scenario:

You have the correct odds to call or you bet their hand for them and then make a better one on the river. They bitch because they lost, not realizing that all they had to do was bet or raise at the right time for us to fold. Of course, no way in heck I am going to tell them that. The aquarium is just fine with my tapping /images/graemlins/wink.gif