Difference between PP 5/10 and 10/20 short

[girgy44]

I have been working my way up the party 6 max game spending 2 months at 1/2 short, and 3 at 5/10. I am running at about 2.3BB/100 over 25k hands(all 5/10 short), and feel that I would like to take a shot at 10/20. I am going to go into this with some sort of limit as to how much I can lose, probably 100BB or so which I know is not all that much overall in the short game in general, but I want to take a shot.

So what are the main differneces between 5/10 and 10/20? From lurking I have picked up that 5/10 players are much more passive, which I have definitely taken advantage of, and I suppose poorer in general. Are there really a lot less fish in 10/20 or are they just a little richer? I also have not run into too many players who are capable of making many tricky plays(or maybe I haven't noticed?). I would be greatful for any words of wisdom or advice. Anyone reccomend not taking the shot? (This was the way I got into 5/10 as well. I won early and was then able to control the swings and I have never dropped into the red regarding 5/10.)

[helpmeout]

I havent played $10/$20 that long but I am probably going to mix limits for a bit now.

$10/$20 the players are much tougher.

You'll find people checkraising way more, sometimes as a semi bluff, bluff or from slowplaying. You get a lot of guys checkraising with A high on the turn HU.

There are way more LAGs, not just the good kind that bet anything. There are thinking LAGs, they'll suck you into calling them down all the time.

You need reads otherwise you will get run over. It is easy to just fold/call down too often, people will play you not just the cards. Even the weak passive guys will change their game when you start folding to their bets everytime.

This is the first limit where I have struggled to find enough fish to 2 table consistantly (I am fussy with table selection).

I'd suggest you datamine a lot before settling in.

[TwoNiner]

A lot more variance in the 10-20 game. There are bad players there as well, but most of the bad ones are crappy and aggressive rather than crappy and just plain weak. Start out playing one table of 10-20 and really pay attention and work your way into it.

[girgy44]

When you say datamine, how exactly does that work? After opening a table up what do you do in PT to accomplish this?

[Packerfan1]

Not to be the one that points out the obvious... but its important.

250BB at 5/10 is $2,500. at 10/20 its $5,000.

I think its commonly accepted that even the best of us can hit a 250BB downturn at any given time in the 6max games (I've had two of them in 4 months in fact).

If your bankroll is ready, then you probably are. If you're going to get bent the first time you drop $1000 in an hour or less... stick to the 5/10 game.

Pack

[girgy44]

Yeah thanks, My roll is at about 9k so I should be fine if I am a solid 10/20 player which I may not be, but again: someone help me out with exactly how to datamine please.

[Michael Davis]

9K definitely does not guarantee going broke at the 10-20 even for a good player.

-Michael

[girgy44]

[ QUOTE ]
9K definitely does not guarantee going broke at the 10-20 even for a good player.


[/ QUOTE ]

I assume you mean does not guarantee not going broke? But as I said in the original post I wasn't ready to risk it all, I would drop back to 5/10 at a point set going into the proposed jump.

[Jeff W]

If you have the stomach for it, I would recommend setting aside 200 BB for the 10/20. 100 BB downswings are common. A 200 BB downswing is fairly unlikely for a winning player, but if it happens, you will still have plenty of roll to play the 5/10. 200 BB gives you a chance to prove whether you can beat the game or not.

[Danenania]

If you plan on playing for a prolonged period I'd suggest a minimum of 10k as a working bankroll. 9k is fine to start but I'd be ready to drop down if you have a really bad run at first. Good luck.

[girgy44]

I agree with all that has been said concerning the roll, and I think I will set aside 200BB. Any other advice about the difference between the games?

[Jeff W]

Since you asked nicely, try this link. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=headsup&Number=900413&fpar t=&PHPSESSID=)

[bds]

[ QUOTE ]
When you say datamine, how exactly does that work? After opening a table up what do you do in PT to accomplish this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't see that an answer to this question, so I will try. If I miss anything or am unclear, ask and I’ll try to make it clearer.

When you have a table open (even if not playing at it) in the party family of sites, the hand histories are stored on your computer automatically. They stay there until you log out of the poker software, and then they are deleted.

The hand histories for the tables you are playing at show up as .txt files. The hand histories for the tables you are observing show up as .hhf files and are placed at c:/partypoker/ (if party is the site you are using). They are not placed in the hand history subfolder, but at the root of the partypoker directory.

Keep in mind that you poker tracker data base can only be so large. Decide where you want these observed hands stored. They can be in your main database or you can create a separate database in which to store them. (If you chose to put them in a separate database, when you export notes, you can choose to "combine stats from multiple databases" and have all the info on each player exported.)

OK - so make sure you have a recent release or updated version of poker tracker. Then, chose File, Auto-Import Hand History/Tournament Summaries - Setup. (If this option does not show up, go to poker tracker site and download an update.) Then, specify the file(s) where you regular hand histories are stored and make your other choices. Click on OK. On this next screen, choose "Configure Import of Observed Hands). This is where you tell poker tracker which database you want the observed hands placed in and where to look for the observed hand histories. That’s all there is to it.

Hope this helps.

[Benjamin]

At 10/20 the play is more aggressive and trickier. Be prepared to go to showdown heads up w/ a good ace or a low pair with some frequencey against the more aggro opponents. Keep an eye on your table stats and don't get stuck at a table dominated by TAGs, which happens a lot more at 10/20 than 5/10.

I'll second the suggestion to set aside 200 BB for your shot. You could easily drop 100 in a couple days of running bad.

B.

[rtucker5]

[ QUOTE ]
9K definitely does not guarantee going broke at the 10-20 even for a good player.

-Michael

[/ QUOTE ]

If you go through $9K in 10/20, you are either not a good player, or you have too many leaks when things aren't going your way.

[fsuplayer]

If you go through $9K in 10/20, you are either not a good player, or you have too many leaks when things aren't going your way.

you dont have a $9k BR in case you lose 9k. you keep a BR so that if/when you hit a big downswing, you dont have to drop down in games.

i had a $16k BR, had a $5k drop, but could still afford to play at the $10-20 game.

that is the point of the BR.

$9k should be fine for starting out and taking a dip, but if you drop below $7k, i would drop back to $5/10.

i started 10/20 6 max 4 tables with 10k FWIW.

gl to you.

[girgy44]

Thanks to all of you especially bds for taking the time to show me how to datamine. After taking all of what was said into account I think I am going to stick to 5/10 for a month, hopefully move my BR up 3-4k and datamine all the while, and then I think I will be ready to take a shot. Thanks again.

[girgy44]

I forgot to say this, but Jeff W that post is great, that was exactly what I wanted to know, thanks.

[rtucker5]

you dont have a $9k BR in case you lose 9k. you keep a BR so that if/when you hit a big downswing, you dont have to drop down in games.

I understand this, that's not what I was saying. I was just responding that I don't think a good player would ever lose $9000 in 10/20 no matter how bad they were running. That's a huge setback. If you are a good player, I can see downswings in the 150-200 bet range, but never 450.

[1800GAMBLER]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
9K definitely does not guarantee going broke at the 10-20 even for a good player.

-Michael

[/ QUOTE ]

If you go through $9K in 10/20, you are either not a good player, or you have too many leaks when things aren't going your way.

[/ QUOTE ]

You so silly.

[Peter_rus]

[ QUOTE ]
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9K definitely does not guarantee going broke at the 10-20 even for a good player.

-Michael


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If you go through $9K in 10/20, you are either not a good player, or you have too many leaks when things aren't going your way.


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You so silly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually i think streak of 450BB is uncommon and shows that even if you're positive player, but just a little and you have many things to improve. I had one 250BB streak in 15/30 and i still think my EV wasn't way high in this game and i have many spots to improve there.

[1800GAMBLER]

See when you say uncommon do you mean 1% or 0.1% or 0.01% chance of having one? Say a solid player with win rate x and variance y has a 0.1% of losing 450bb that means it will happen to 1 in a 1000 people; how many people do you think post on these forums? If it's 1000 people then we are hearing from the one unlucky guy. So that alone disproves, 'If you go through $9K in 10/20, you are either not a good player, or you have too many leaks when things aren't going your way.'

The counter argument is 'it's so unlikely to lose 450bb as a solid player that it's more likely you are a losing player', well ok 0.1% is an unlikely event and for some players that statement will be true, but for players Schneids it's def. not true, since there is no way his play got so bad in this losing streak that he went from say a 3bb/100h player to a -1b/100h player, remember you only need to be a 0.1bb/100h player to be a winning player.