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View Full Version : Awkward hand with JJ...do I like this flop?


DrPublo
12-08-2004, 10:53 PM
A really awkward spot for JJ here, and I couldn't tell exactly how much I did (or didn't) like the flop. CO is new to the table, no read on him, button seemed pretty typical. After the session my numbers on him (50 hands) read 34/6.

I particularly hate my river play, but I think the critical juncture in the hand is the turn. The turn was really a total shock of a card for me, I checked with the intention of raising but then changed my mind and called. I think I should have check-raised the turn, and then if the CO calls 2 cold there I know he has the Ad. Turns out he folded for one bet so I don't need to worry about a flush draw there.

All thoughts appreciated, as always.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif. CO posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO (poster) calls, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, BB folds, Hero calls, CO calls.

Turn: (7.25 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls, CO folds.

River: (9.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB

The Doc

mcpeepants
12-08-2004, 11:26 PM
I think the flop is pretty good. Your pair probably isn't good, but the jacks add to your outs (backdoor straight and a set). With the second nut flush draw you're probably going to the river. On the turn a check-call is way too weak. Once you hit your set it is probably the best hand, if not, you have 19 outs to beat a baby flush (9 second-nut flush and 10 for filling up). You should definitely check-raise here if you think the button will bet again. If you get re-raised you're committed to seeing a showdown. But usually, second-best hands will fold or pay you off after you lead the river.

You should definitely bet the river here.

DrPublo
12-08-2004, 11:48 PM
I thought about betting the river, but because I played the hand the way I did, I never put the button to the test. He could have been betting the lone Ad and I never fought back to slow him down. I turned into a bit of a calling station, which I hate. Thus I couldn't be sure he didn't have just the Ad.

If I bet, and he has the Ad, then he raises and I call. -2BB. If I bet and he doesn't have the Ad or any diamond, he folds because to him it looks like I played the hand like AK or AQ with the Ad. +0BB. If I check, then I think he bets a large percentage of the time (which he did) and I can call (+1BB) or raise. But if I raise I have to fold to a 3-bet, and I think he folds all hands that don't have a diamond in them.

So I probably make most by check-calling the river, no?

The Doc

CinnamonWind
12-09-2004, 12:47 AM
Absolutely must raise the turn here. You have the second nut flush draw and a set, with 11 good outs to fill up or hold the mortal nuts and another 6 to beat a baby flush. You just *have* to raise the turn for value here.

As for the river, on Party 2-4 I'd be raising and calling a reraise. Most players at that level don't raise the flop with a flush draw to the ace, and they instinctively slowplay a made ace high flush, so that's likely out. I'd put the chances of your opponent holding the ace at low to very low, without any reads.