Stars SNG colluding.

[dogsballs]

Just got this from Pokerstars support, so props to them. I play a lot of 55 and 105 turbos there.

What kind of advantage could colluding have in a SNG? If you dump chips, then it's effectively doubling the buy-in. Is it probable that they'd be squeezing other players out to steal pots?


[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars <management@pokerstars.com> to me
More options 4:14am (6 hours ago)

Hello,

PokerStars has become aware of two players who were working together in our Sit & Go tournaments to the detriment of other players. You were involved in at least one tournament with these players and as a result you may have been adversely affected.

The players' accounts were closed and their funds frozen pending a thorough investigation, which is now complete. Fortunately the problem was identified quickly and they had played in relatively few tournaments before the accounts were closed.

In a case such as this it is our policy to confiscate the colluders' winnings or balances and to distribute them to the players affected by their actions in as fair a way as possible. To confirm your credit, log onto your PokerStars account, go to the 'Cashier' screen and click the 'History' button. Your share will be shown as a transfer from 'Acct. Credit'.

I regret that we will be unable to answer questions as to how your specific credit amount was calculated. Likewise, we are not at liberty identify the specific games or players in question. Suffice to say that they have been barred from the site and you will not encounter them again.

The integrity of the games at PokerStars is of paramount importance to us and we will not abide cheating or collusion in our games. We work hard to police our games and prevent such instances. In the rare cases where collusion has actually occurred, we make sure that any players affected are compensated appropriately.

Thank you for your continued play here on PokerStars. Please do not hesitate to let us know any time we can be of help.

Best Regards,

SteveW
PokerStars Support Team

[/ QUOTE ]

[rjb03]

I don't think colluding in an SNG is all that dangerous compared to cash games. At the end of the tournament, there's not as much emphasis on post flop play to make it as profitable for colluders who can exploit post flop play in a cash game. I guess you could freeze out the BB in a steal situation if one colluder is on the button and one is in the SB by calling the button's steal, allowing the BB to only resteal with the best of hands. But, again, the stacks aren't really deep enough to be able to manipulate the odds in their favor, that is, if they are even smart cheaters. I guess chip dumping could be effective if they are both desparate and giving one player all the chips will give the team a better shot at the money.

[Superfluous Man]

No real content from me; I always assumed colluders would chip dump on the bubble so that both would make it ITM.

Anyway, I also got this email today and a nice little chunk of change added to my 'stars account to go with it. Like you, I used to play $55+5 turbos until I found out (pretty much the hard way, though it could have been a lot worse; I never hit rock bottom) why the terms "bankroll management" and "variance" are important in gambling. I look forward to doing some gamboolin' with this "free" money tonight, though.

I distinctly remember playing against you, as well; if I were posting from my computer at home I'd look up my notes on you, other than the obligatory "known brown trout." Your notes on me are probably "complete idiot," which at the time would be quite accurate. Maybe you could update them now to "slightly less of an idiot." I'll cease this digression into self-abasement before everyone falls asleep. I'm just glad 'Stars is vigilant like this; it's partly why I think they're the best.

[rjamesd]

I'm glad to see this post. I encountered a suspicious situation last night, actually. There were four of us. Paying to 3. The second chip leader had a small stack to his left, and I was to the left of him, also with a small stack. For about 3 orbits, every time I had BB the second stack guy would raise, the small stack would call, I would fold, and then the second stack would autofold on the flop. also, when the small stack was in the BB, and it was checked to the second stack, he would either fold or call and than autofold the flop. With blinds at 100/200, the small stack went from 800 to 2600 and me from 2000 to 800.

I then confronted them, the big stack agreed with me and said that he suspected the same, and they stopped. I hung on to place, but I think I was lucky to hang in there.

I think I will send pokerroom and email about it actually.

[jcm4ccc]

I once finished third in a 6-handed SitNGo, and PokerStars emailed me the next day saying that two players had been colluding. They moved me up to first place. Pretty cool.

[Iceman]

[ QUOTE ]
Just got this from Pokerstars support, so props to them. I play a lot of 55 and 105 turbos there.

What kind of advantage could colluding have in a SNG? If you dump chips, then it's effectively doubling the buy-in. Is it probable that they'd be squeezing other players out to steal pots?

[/ QUOTE ]

Colluders who knew what they were doing would have a significant advantage in a single-table SNG.

I don't want to post anything publicly that might assist colluders, but there are situations where a partnership could make plays that were a net gain to themselves and a net loss to the rest of the field, even if it appeared that one of the partners lost while another won.

[M.B.E.]

My guess is that most of the advantage is from sharing hole cards and staying out of each other's pots.

With a 50/30/20 structure, my guess is that a "team" of two players (or more) would do better playing in separate SNGs than playing against each other collusively in the same SNG. Obviously when they do collude in one SNG the team does better than it would if playing against each other without colluding, so the collusion definitely hurts the other entrants in the tournament.

[La Brujita]

I agree with M.B.E. This is just a gut feeling of mine but I think most people who attempt to collude in sit and gos are either not very good or not very smart since they don't understand where they derive much of their value in a sit and go. That being said MBE (too many periods to always type) is correct that the presence of the colluders hurts the others.

What I never understand (and not intending to write a manual for colluders) is why not play a cash game like PLO if you want to cheat. In that game you would have a huge advantage I would think.

[zephyr]

[ QUOTE ]
why not play a cash game like PLO

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're right in saying that most colluders are not smart or good. The reason they play HE is because its the game that they learned from watching WPT. If they played PLO they'd likely keep trying to make the nut flush with the bare Ace in their hand.

Zephyr