Strange Situation.....Input Please

[Rooster71]

I recently posted a free classified ad on a billiards site to sell my pool table. I've gotten a few responses, but with pool tables shipping can be a prohibitive factor. This morning, I got the following email:

[ QUOTE ]
I intend patronizing you. i shall be needing your Brunswick Wellington 8' pool table. Kindly send me your final asking price, your physical address where payment can be sent, and the name as it should appear on the payment. Payment shall be made by a cerfified Banker's check or money order. I'm currently located in Johannesburg, South Africa but can have my shipper pick up the product from you as soon as payment as been received by you. Thanks in anticipation to your swift response to my e-mail.

[/ QUOTE ]
I email him back and tell him that I am near Dallas, Texas and that he should check on shipping costs. He emails me back and adamatly insists that he wants the pool table and needs an address to send the money.

Doesn't this seem really strange? I can't see any way he could screw me out of anything, but I'm sure there's some angle here. I have a really hard time seeing why someone would be serious about this when they are in South Africa.

Is anyone familiar with any sort of scam that sounds like this?

[daryn]

i say give him your post office box (or get one if you don't have one). then when his "payment" shows up, try to cash it. if it clears, then give him the pool table. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[gavrilo]

That seems odd. Why ship from US to there, shipping would be atrocious. He would be much better looking somewhere else thus it screams scam to me.

[bdk3clash]

This craigslist scams page (http://newyork.craigslist.org/about/scams.html) might be of some help.

Specifically:
[ QUOTE ]
distant buyer offers a high-value (but fake) cashier's check in exchange for your item

you receive an odd email (actual examples sent to craigslist sellers below) offering to buy your item site unseen.
cashier's check is offered for your sale item, as a deposit for an apartment, or just about anything else.
value of cashier's check often far exceeds your item - buyer asks you to wire the balance via money transfer service
banks will often cash these fake checks AND THEN HOLD YOU RESPONSIBLE WHEN THE CHECK FAILS TO CLEAR
scam often involves a 3rd party (shipping agent, business associate owing buyer money, etc)

[/ QUOTE ]

[Topflight]

It seems fishy enough that I wouldn't want to get involved. Just wait for something normal to come along.

[elwoodblues]

Require a different type of payment (i.e. Paypal?) otherwise - see ya later.

[2planka]

Seems to be a pretty good match for your scammer. Trust your feelings, Skywalker.

[nicky g]

Certainly looks like a scam given the similiarities to the ones listed on the scamming FAQ. But what's the scam? Aren't these people usually after money? Surely he's not trying to scam you out of a pool table probably worth less than the cost of shipping it thousands of miles round the world?

[tolbiny]

The scammer doesn't pay the shipper. He sends you the money order or whatever for the pool table + the shipping. Then You pay the guy who picks it up, and the check bounces a few days later.
In some of the really complex scams the shipping company is fake as is the address and they don't actually ship the pool table. They come and pick it up and dump it and thier profit comes from the amount of shipping that you paid.

[nicky g]

OK, but in the first one he's still scamming in order to get the pool table or whatever, right? That seems weird. It seems like a lot of effort/risk for a free pool table.


The second one makes more sense to me.

[tolbiny]

"OK, but in the first one he's still scamming in order to get the pool table or whatever, right?"

Yeah, the second one is more likely IMO. However if the pool table is valued at 2 or 3k and he lives in a country where prosecution is a minimal risk, what's sending a email and a fake check gonna cost him?

One should be especially cautious about overseas offers. They are harder to prosecute (read impossible) but most banks reaquire a longer clearing peroid than the 3 day within country that is typical.

[fnord_too]

I would just reply back that you do not do business with people located in other jurisdictions (in this case out of the US) since neither side has recourse if there is any dissatisfaction. This is almost assuredly a scam of some kind, and I certainly don't like giving people I do not trust any personal information.

[Non_Comformist]

Yeah its a scam.

Post the reply you get from this guy.

[OrangeHeat]

I would contact the local authorities so they can arrest the "shipper" when he shows up.

You may save someone not as savvy as you from a similar experience.

Orange

[BusterStacks]

Eh, I would try to get the check and see if it clears. There is no legal way you can be held responsible.

[daryn]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
The scammer doesn't pay the shipper. He sends you the money order or whatever for the pool table + the shipping. Then You pay the guy who picks it up, and the check bounces a few days later.
In some of the really complex scams the shipping company is fake as is the address and they don't actually ship the pool table. They come and pick it up and dump it and thier profit comes from the amount of shipping that you paid.

[/ QUOTE ]


what if the guy just waits til the money is in the bank?

i don't get it. seems like if you wanted you could make it a no-scam situation.

[Rooster71]

This sounds like a scam for numerous reasons. The scam FAQ posted in this thread makes the whole deal sound even fishier. I figure the scammers lure the victim with a promise of an outrageous price to help put them in a willing mood, then ask them to pay some sort of fee that doesn't really exist. Here is how I replied:

[ QUOTE ]
My final asking price is $975. I prefer to receive the funds via Western Union. Please let me know if you are able to send the funds via Western Union and we can go from there. Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

Please keep in mind that this pool table has no real collectible value. It's a good high quality table, but not some sort of high value item. Also my original ad said that I would provide pictures upon request, I find it really odd that this guy has never asked to see the pics.

I'll post his reply when I receive it.

[Martin]

I used to live in South Africa.
Be careful since there is quite a bit of fraud going on from that side. As far as payment goes, if he is serious he should be able to do the Western Union transfer. Don't take a cheque, cheque fraud is rife in SA.

There are weird currency restrictions which limit the ways money can leave the country.

I know next to nothing about pool tables but a new one wasn't that expensive as I recall. A lot come in from the far east, maybe yours is better quality or something.

A lot of container shipping goes in and out of SA so it is theoretically possible that he has some connection with a company moving goods from the USA and is just having it sent along in the container for free. This happens often with stuff from Europe. Just make sure you don't pay the shipping !!!! Shipping companies from SA are the biggest sharks in the world. I know from personal experience /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[Rooster71]

[ QUOTE ]
I used to live in South Africa.
Be careful since there is quite a bit of fraud going on from that side. As far as payment goes, if he is serious he should be able to do the Western Union transfer. Don't take a cheque, cheque fraud is rife in SA.

There are weird currency restrictions which limit the ways money can leave the country.

I know next to nothing about pool tables but a new one wasn't that expensive as I recall. A lot come in from the far east, maybe yours is better quality or something.

A lot of container shipping goes in and out of SA so it is theoretically possible that he has some connection with a company moving goods from the USA and is just having it sent along in the container for free. This happens often with stuff from Europe. Just make sure you don't pay the shipping !!!! Shipping companies from SA are the biggest sharks in the world. I know from personal experience /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Western Union funds are always good, so that cuts out any BS about bad or fake checks, etc. He was responding really quickly to my emails, but he has not yet responded to the last one. I guess the Western Union thing has him stumped.

There are some pool tables currently selling as low as $200, but mine is an 8' regulation size table with a 1" slate. The total weight is 1029 pounds. The actual value is between $500 and $900. I quoted him $975 just for kicks.

[RocketManJames]

Sounds similar to the Nigerian 419 scam...

I'd look into variants of that scam.

-RMJ

[heavybody]

This happened to me and I was told that the check had cleared . When i started to right out a money order for the balance the teller informed me of the South African scam. In my opinion the only way this can work is if the bank is involved. They told me the check had cleared but in a month they could say the check bounced. I still bank at Bof A but there involved.

[Oski]

I think the guy just has a serious jones for some pool. He's been getting by using a dirt patch in his yard, but its not the same thing.

Ship the fokker the table C.O.D.

[Martin]

To be honest he is probably trying to find the Western Union office and figure out how to do the transfer. Assuming ofcourse he is serious.
Western Union isn't exactly common in SA and the offices in Johannesburg are in rather unsafe areas.

[Rooster71]

I finally hear back from my last email (requesting he use Western Union).

His response:
[ QUOTE ]
Hello,
Sorry, associate confirmed payment can only being via a certified international money order. Pls. let me know.
Regards,
Thomas...

[/ QUOTE ]

My response:
[ QUOTE ]
I'll pay your Western Union fee. I'm pretty sure you have Western Unions in South Africa. Otherwise, I tend to believe you are full of [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]

[Martin]

He is full of crap. Western Union has offices in Johannesburg. I used them myself.