Post deleted by Mat Sklansky

[goodedesign]

[goodedesign]

[phil_ivey_fan]

is this the same guy who wrote...
- Rich Dad, Poor Dad

?

[BSXX]

High Probability Trading
by Marcel Link


This is a trading book, not an investing book. It is a nuts and bolts realistic view of trading and the time and effort required to be successful. There are many good reviews on Amazon.com so I will not elaborate too much here.

The author covers some of the typical indicators, but he freshens them up and really gives you a better way to use them in your trading. He also gets into money management (one of the beginners biggest weaknesses), the psychology of trading, and so much more. This book is very, very helpful.

Probably the best book I have ever read on trading, along with “Trading in the Zone” by Mark Douglas (don’t let the clichéd title fool you…it is very good). I liked it better than Market Wizards.

[GeorgeF]

-Market Wizards
Give a brief synopsis of the book
-Stories about dudes who made alot in the market
What was good about the book?
- Taught me that the many people who made money where smarter, better financed, and more disciplined than I would ever be. Lot's of other people in the book just got lucky in my opinion.

What needed improving in the book?
-More details of systems used

What did you take from the book that has improved your trading/investing or life?
-Alot of people try to imitate the guys in the book but can't because they just don't have it. While I will never beat the market greats there are alot of wanna be types I can get to buy and sell from me at advantagous prices.

I also learned that you have a limited amount of time to take advantage of any market conditions.

[goodedesign]

[BSXX]

Very good. The first part of the book gets a little slow, but when he gets into the trading psychology, the 2nd half of the book, it is very powerful.

[Evan]

is there any reason the The Intelligent Investor hasn't been mentioned?

What's good....best value investing book ever. it essentially puts Graham's mind onto paper. Also, in the new edition, the pieces by Buffet are awesome.

Maybe no one said it because its too obvious, I just started reading this forum so I don't know if its just a given. Either way, everyone should read that book if they haven't and reread it if they have.

[Warren Whitmore]

like holdem for advance players I reread it once a month.

[Evan]

Okay, good. Continue on.

Also, get SSH.

[goodedesign]

[Evan]

My synopsis...

Clearly the best book on value investing ever. It covers everything from picking individual investments to understanding overall economics at their most macro level. This was the first book that made me feel like I "got it". IMO attempting to intelligently invest (haha, no pun) without reading this book and understanding its concepts is pretty much just stupid. Graham was, is and always will be a genius. WEB (haha, can't spell that wrong) followed in his footsteps and built Berkshire from nothing, if that's not testimony to Graham's brilliance than I don't know what is. This book will teach you to treat your investments as more that just strings of letters with market caps and PE ratios--that is the first step to becoming a succesful investor.

[DesertCat]

[ QUOTE ]
by the way... mak shure you speel buffett rite.... i had some1 on this furom choo me out for not speeling it write.

[/ QUOTE ]

You got called out because you claim to use the same techniques as Buffett, yet you don't know anything about him or his techniques (you mispelling his name repeatedly was just icing on the cake). Now you admit you haven't even read his mentors seminal work? That's just so sad man.

[Evan]

Does that mean I'm off the hook? wooooot!!!!!

[goodedesign]

[DesertCat]

[ QUOTE ]

ok. i didn't claim to do EVERY THING buffét does. i'm not his best friend... i don't lick his undershorts like you do. I don't worship him. I don't want to have his babies or him have mine.

[/ QUOTE ]

You want me to stop bashing, and you post this? Look if you want to learn how to play poker, you might want to start learning from someone who's a proven winner. In Poker sometimes though it's difficult to know who's the biggest winners, since much is all hearsay, and even tournament winners don't disclose how many buyins they used.

If you want to learn how to invest, you can learn from the most successful living investor. And his results have been audited for the last thirty years so you know they are accurate. It's not blind hero worship, it's just common sense.

You on the other hand, paid hundreds of dollars to some backwoods idiot with no verifiable track record. Instead, you could have read Buffett's shareholder letters for free or read a few books on him for a nominal cost (or for free at your local library). The fact that you didn't read up on Buffett is unfortunate, and your constant insistance you know anything about Buffett is laughable.

[goodedesign]

[Dan Mezick]

Here you go, simply the best of the best. These books are for traders, not investors per se.....trading and poker require very similiar patterns of thought....cheers





Reminiscences of a Stock Operator by Edwin Lefevre (JESSE LIVERMORE) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0471059706/qid=1103143856/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/104-1415801-1048701?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)


Technical Analysis of Stock Trends by Edwards and Magee (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0814406807/qid=1103143997/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/104-1415801-1048701)

Market Wizards by Jack Schwager (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0887306101/qid=1103144068/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-1415801-1048701?v=glance&s=books)


Trading in the Zone by Mark Douglas (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0735201447/qid=1103144134/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/104-1415801-1048701)

[DesertCat]

[ QUOTE ]
i've found someone who is a proven winner in the market

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you know this? Have you seen audited results? How do you know he doesn't just make his money giving seminars or by stealing from client accounts? I don't want to freak you out or make you paranoid but there have been some fantastically successful investors who turned out to be utter frauds.

Martin Frankel is a great example, siphoned $200M off clients while giving them bogus reports on how great he was doing. He owned a big house, and many cars as well.

Your views on trading and investing are interesting. I know that you believe you can make money by trading, but I don't and that's why I don't do it. Many studies have shown that trading is a negative EV activity. And in your example, you lose almost 75% of your investment in GE and you are happy you made a few cents selling options on it?

Secondly, holding a stock that is trading for more than it's IV is foolish. Even Buffett regrets not selling KO at $80, but his hands were tied as a board-member, you and I will never have that excuse. It's hard to have market beating returns by buying undervalued stocks, if you don't sell when they are overvalued.

So to answer your questions. I do have one car payment. It's not that I can't pay the mercedes off, but borrowing at 5% and investing it at a substantially higher returns makes financial sense. Same answer on my house.

I wouldn't buy a Denali BTW, let alone two, my wife's Toyota Landcruiser (which is paid off BTW) has much higher quality. Do I have to go to work on monday? Nope, I don't have to go to work on any day, ever...

Do I own mutual funds? Nope, my time is spent investing my own portfolio full time, so why would I pay someone else fees to do it for me? BTW, Buffett normally recommends index funds to most investors, and he has recommended the Sequioa fund. So saying he would VOMIT, is a little stretch. In fact he is invested in a hedge fund that does bond price arbitrage. That's a special situation though, like me, normally he isn't going to pay fees to someone else to do his job.

[MarkL444]

Evan-

I just wanted to let you know that I am both proud and impressed that you actually clicked on a thread with this title...and contributed!

Your buddy,
Mark

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
-Market Wizards
Give a brief synopsis of the book
-Stories about dudes who made alot in the market
What was good about the book?
- Taught me that the many people who made money where smarter, better financed, and more disciplined than I would ever be. Lot's of other people in the book just got lucky in my opinion.


[/ QUOTE ]

All of the Market Wizards books are very hit or miss. Half the people profiled are smart guys who got lucky. The other half are just guys who got lucky.

[Evan]

haha. Thanks dude, I'm trying.

[lu_hawk]

Intelligent Investor should be read but that has already been mentioned. Security Analysis should be read after that. Think of these 2 as kind of like HPFAP. They lay the groundwork for profitable play but many concepts don't apply very well to the games you're likely to be playing in. For loose games SSH applies much better.

Ben Graham's books lay the groundwork for how to think about investing(keep things simple and buy things for less than they are worth) but his favorite methods and the ones he talks about most involve buying at a discount to book value or net current assets or whatever the measure may be. Those things don't apply very well to the US market anymore but it doesn't matter as long as you grasp the central idea.

My favorite SSH-type book that does apply very well is 'You Can Be A Stock Market Genius' by Joel Greenblatt. Not very well known but the author has been super successful and the book is invaluable.

And valueinvestorsclub.com is the 2+2 of value investing.

[Evan]

Have you actually read Security Analysis? That thing is giant. If there's actually someone that could get through that thing I am very impressed.

I'm not crazy about your statement that Graham's ideas are not applicable to today's market. The idea of "new markets" that no longer follow historical rules (for lack of a better word) was largely responsible for the widespread overpricing of today's market as a whole. I would be wary of such ideas.

[lu_hawk]

I'm not saying there are new markets, I still believe that the best way to invest is to buy things for less than they are worth. But run a stock screen to find some of Graham's net nets. You won't find any. Back in Graham's day there were plenty to pick from. There are still undervalued stocks out there but if you only use Graham's methods then you probably won't find them. Even Buffett has said that he no longer agrees with many of Graham's methods for identifying undervalued securities. But Graham's basic idea of value investing is still as valid today as it was then and will continue to be valid.

I read the 1934 edition of Security Analysis a few years ago. Then when I got out of school my boss required me to read the 1940 version. They are very similar but Buffett was on record somewhere saying he thought the 1940 version was the best.

[FatOtt]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not crazy about your statement that Graham's ideas are not applicable to today's market. The idea of "new markets" that no longer follow historical rules (for lack of a better word) was largely responsible for the widespread overpricing of today's market as a whole. I would be wary of such ideas.


[/ QUOTE ]
My issue with Graham's books are that they're so focused on net tangible assets. I certainly don't agree with the notion of a "New Economy" and I believe that the general idea of buying something for less than it's worth is exactly on target (if not obvious). But one issue that comes up is that accounting standards don't do a good job of recording intangible assets. So too much emphasis on Graham would probably lead you away from firms like pharmaceutical companies because much of their value doesn't show up on the balance sheet.

Yes, you can still look at core earnings power for firms like this, but I don't think that the stocks that Graham would end up buying are the ones that I would like to own. It's similar to when Buffett "saw the light" and purchased See's Candies back in the 70's, even though Graham would have considered it overpriced. I think Charlie Munger and Philip Fisher have contributed to Buffett's conversion from a cigar butt investor to someone who's willing to pay more for a high-quality business.

Two books that I don't think have been mentioned are Bruce Greenwald's Value Investing and Fisher's Common Stocks...

[Evan]

Great post. Very valid point and well said.

I remember a section in Security Analysis where Graham talks about the importance of valuing intangible assets correctly but I don't know how deep he goes into the actual process of doing so.

[squiffy]

Warren Buffet Way

Warren Buffet Portfolio

Both by Robert Hagstrom.

Gives a good basic explanation of one conservative approach to investing -- buying and holding and outstanding company that is temporarily undervalued.

You need to supplement it with other readings. But it's a good basic start for people interested in picking their own stocks.