Some historical statistics

[lstream]

A while back, I posted some questions related to how many hands should be playable. There were some interesting responses. Since that time I have tracked some numbers, that most people will probably find boring, but you never know.

I have tracked a total of 4305 hands over 78 hours. Of these, 73.2% of hands were folded on third street. 14.8% of my total hands were played to completion (showdown or everyone else folded). Of these, 75.0% were winners. This means that I have won 11.4% of the hands I have played, which is pretty close to my fair share in an 8 handed game. During this time, my average win rate is $18.15 per hour. All of this activity was in the $3/$6 tables at Empire Poker. My worst session resulted in a loss rate of $161/hr, while my best was a win rate of $280/hr. These were pretty short sessions. I find that once my unplayble rate approaches 80%, that it is pretty hard to make money, although there are exceptions.

I wonder how this compares to other peoples experience?

[BeerMoney]

Sounds like UR running GOOD! How do you find the empire games compared to party?

[lstream]

I've never been to Party per se, but Empire and Party are the same place I believe - just different skins. They pool players. So if you go to a table via the Empire skin, then you end up at tables with people who entered via the Party Skin. At least I think that is how it works.

Whenever we have chatted at the tables, I have come in through Empire. I'm not running quite as good as it seems - I was playing for a while before I started keeping stats. When I include those sessions, together with some that I forgot to track, my hourly win rate is $12.40. I'm still pretty happy with this, considering I am a newbie. The variance gods can still catch up with me, I bet.

[PoorLawyer]

Do you keep all of these stats manually, or is their any program that can do this for stud? Those Hold em guys are hogging all the technology it seems

[lstream]

It's manual with a slight technology assist. I hacked up a little program that has a set of buttons on it - e.g. fold third, etc. Everytime I play a hand I click the appropriate button and the program keeps count. I then put the data into a spreadsheet later. It's kind of tedious, but I wanted to know what was typical for number of playable hands. I was a little suprised at how few are playable on average.

[MBTIGUY]

I like looking at my stats, too, but I have to be careful to only do so periodically or I'll start playing to my stats rather than making the right decision (as if I could recognize that, anyway) at the time.

Over about 9,000 hands (when I started really keeping track of playing stats and not just money) of .50/1.00 and 2/4, I'm playing 24% of my hands. That's really consistent from site-to-site and level-to-level.
I get to showdown about 10% of the time and win about 8% of my hands. That stat is interesting. Theres a phrase, "Win money, not hands." I actually starting winning more money when my win rate dropped (it might have been around 12% like yours). This seems to validate my self-assessment that I've gotten better at getting money in when I have the best of it, and getting more money out of my opponents when that's the case. I think it also suggests I've gotten better at getting away from marginal hands early.

I took a look at cold deck sessions (less than 20% playable) and found that I actually make money on balance. I'm sure that has to do with playing no-ante/low ante games, though. However, I have improved a lot at being patient and playing well through cold decks.

Paradise gives a great stat dump into an excel spreadsheet on demand or when you logoff. While it doesn't analyze hands like the HE crowds can do, it does analyze your play. Among other things, I am able to keep track of how often I check, call, bet or raise which lets me stay on top of how passive or aggressive I'm playing.
I'm sure you're beating them because you're playing well but the Empire games sound juicy. Maybe I need to check them out.

[timmer]

Considering you are bringing it in 12.5% of the time Id say you are playing too tightly at 14%+. Given a Party type structure Id say you are playing too reserved

I play about twice as many third streets against bad opponents when there is little raising on 3rd as you are playing here, perhaps more. ( Even Dan "Kidpoker" Negreaneau has commented expressly on the number of hands Im playing early in these games) But I do see most 4th streets for just the bring in or 1 bet in than games described where the bring in is 1/2 the small bet.

With half of those I see 6th ( However I do get many free cards often seeing 6th for 1/2 bet by raising or check raising 4th) and win a solid 43% of those pots where 4th street is seen and 52% of my showdowns.

obviously I call a few percentage points too many on the end

but I have won almost 15% of every hand Ive been dealt over the last 1800 or so hands. which is about 20% more than my fair share.

I rarely fluctuate over 100 BB and am doing quite well at these limits on my Risk:Return.

Im purposefully playing quite loose early with measured aggression throughout. I often Play many hands against worse opponents often singleing out one or two by position raising.

Obviously I dont recommend you play as loosely on third as I . But I do think you should try find another 8 or so more hands to play per 100 if the structure dictates same. Im getting a sneaking suspicion you arent playing very many bring ins. Perhaps your game is quite aggressive early on or the bring in to small bet ratio is larger. You still are likely getting 3 or even 4:1 so ... well you decide.

Obversly and Obviously I should tighten up somewhat But...

so many fish so little time /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

timmer

[lstream]

Timmer,

I think you are correct in some of your observations. In the past few sessions I have played a few bring-ins a little more aggressively, depending on the feel of the table. So far I think this has added a bit to my winnings. Also, I am probably quite reserved in starting hand selection, but pretty aggressive once I am in. I try to isolate quite a bit - this works at some tables, but not others. Once I get a feel for the table, I will adjust the level of agression.

There are some crazy people at the 3/6 tables at Empire/Party. I won a $112 pot yesterday where I brought in with rolled up 2's. I re-raised after someone completed and then bet agressively all the way to the river. My hand did not improve and the board did not look threatening at all. One guy stayed all the way to the river. When I bet, he raised, and then I re-raised. He folded. After throwing all that money into the pot, I thought that for another $6, he would have at least called. Go figure.