Are two overcalls better than one? KJs from MP1 [Archive]

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runa

12-07-2004, 12:08 PM

UTG+1 is shortstacked and is singing the poker bad beat blues. He is TA-N and basically looking to give his money away so he can quit.

MP2, MP3 and CO are passive post flop.

Stupid position! What do I do (for the rest of the hand)?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, 3 folds, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero ???

Fat Nicky

12-07-2004, 12:14 PM

Hero calls the flop and prays it is capped by the time it gets back around to him.

djoyce003

12-07-2004, 01:17 PM

I'd call and see if any of the other's come along for the ride. Maybe someone has the queen of spades and will pay you off. I'm raising the turn assuming the board doesn't pair or if another spade falls. If the fourth spade falls, anyone with a crappy spade will call one bet but will probably fold to a raise. In that case, i'd call the turn and raise the river.

runa

12-07-2004, 01:54 PM

I don't want to shut out the field, but the question is can I get a single /images/graemlins/spade.gif or two to stick around and cold call this flop if I raise, or UTG+1 to possibly play back?

I don't expect a raise behind in this case since they're so passive, and I'm worried how play on this street, given the PF action, will affect later streets for those to act behind me as well.

Raising the turn seems like an obvious slowplay, and most small /images/graemlins/spade.gif hands aren't willing to CC 2BB, esp if a 4th /images/graemlins/spade.gif falls.

Raises don't often get respect on the flop, and I feel like a single /images/graemlins/spade.gif might put me and UTG+1 for a high pair and call for cheap bets on this street.

Quindle

12-07-2004, 02:40 PM

It's tricky because there are few high spades left to try and draw out with. The Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif isn't going anywhere for two bets on the flop, and the T /images/graemlins/spade.gif might just hang around and hope to steal the pot from the paired aces that you and EP are representing.

On balance, though, it's a fairly easy raise: it's not uncommon for dry hands behind you to fold for even one bet on the flop so you're not necessarily going to gain anything at all from calling anyway. Your raise looks like both a decent ace and a standard play for a free card for wet KK/QQ etc. When you add up all the hands behind you that give you action regardless of a flop raise - the Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif, many aces, a set - then you have to raise it and hope you've got lucky. Also bear in mind that the pot will grow and be that much harder to fold for one or even two bets on the turn.

The much harder decision is on the turn. I'd favour raising were EP to bet out having 3 bet the flop, and I'd have to bet out if flop had been reraised behind and I'd called the three. Tricky one is if you're called twice on the flop and then UTG has another bet at you for what is still only a medium sized pot...

runa

12-07-2004, 04:00 PM

So I failed to raise...

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, 3 folds, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero ???

Joe Tall

12-07-2004, 04:13 PM

You did not "fail to raise" you collected many bets and bought a beer and sandwich, be happy.

Call again.

Peace,
Joe Tall

runa

12-07-2004, 04:56 PM

Beer! I like beer! Though asian glow is truly embarassing at times...

I guess 2 overcalls is the way to go.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, 3 folds, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO folds.

River: (13.25 BB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: 15.25 BB

MP2 has [ Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ] a flush, ace high.

wtf....MP2 was really uber passive...

Thanks for the feedback everyone! I appreciate your comments.