First time playing SnG's, think I am playing to passive...

[MitchVW]

I would appreciate any help yall could give me, I believe I am playing decent, only playing stong hands. But out of the 3 SnG's I played last night, it seemed that the aggresive people that were playing almost every hand were killing everone. I know its a small sampling, but just a observation from last night. Should I be making more semi-bluff calls or just stay with rock hard cards? I finished 6th, 4th, and 6th, in the 3 I played last night.

Here is some of the hands from last night, thanks for any help you can give me on any of them!

1st:

NL Hold'em $10 Buy-in + $1 Entry Fee Trny:7709688 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Monday, December 06, 22:16:19 EDT 2004
Table Table 11118 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 9: CapGloval ( $1820 )
Seat 5: MitchVW ( $745 )
Seat 4: viper65 ( $980 )
Seat 10: randomtempo ( $770 )
Seat 1: curbmane ( $725 )
Seat 7: nicholasha24 ( $770 )
Seat 8: tantor24 ( $485 )
Seat 2: Bradv4 ( $1705 )
Trny:7709688 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to MitchVW [ Kh Ks ]
curbmane folds.
Bradv4 folds.
viper65 folds.
MitchVW raises [45].
nicholasha24 calls [45].
tantor24 folds.
CapGloval folds.
randomtempo calls [30].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Js, 7d, Qc ]
randomtempo checks.
MitchVW bets [150].
nicholasha24 folds.
randomtempo calls [150].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6s ]
randomtempo checks.
MitchVW checks.
** Dealing River ** [ Tc ]
randomtempo bets [15].
MitchVW raises [450].
randomtempo calls [435].
MitchVW shows [ Kh, Ks ] a pair of kings.
randomtempo doesn't show [ 4s, Qd ] a pair of queens.
MitchVW wins 1345 chips from the main pot with a pair of kings.

2nd:I dont think I played this hand well at all.

Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 9: CapGloval ( $1640 )
Seat 5: MitchVW ( $1355 )
Seat 4: viper65 ( $780 )
Seat 1: curbmane ( $885 )
Seat 7: nicholasha24 ( $625 )
Seat 8: tantor24 ( $750 )
Seat 2: Bradv4 ( $1965 )
Trny:7709688 Level:3
Blinds(25/50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to MitchVW [ As Ts ]
MitchVW raises [100].
nicholasha24 calls [100].
tantor24 folds.
CapGloval folds.
curbmane raises [150].
Bradv4 calls [125].
viper65 folds.
MitchVW calls [50].
nicholasha24 calls [50].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7s, 9h, Qd ]
Bradv4 checks.
MitchVW checks.
nicholasha24 bets [100].
curbmane folds.
Bradv4 folds.
MitchVW folds.
nicholasha24 does not show cards.
nicholasha24 wins 750 chips.

3rd: This was some what of a semi-bluff, played all wrong?

Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 9: CapGloval ( $1565 )
Seat 5: MitchVW ( $1205 )
Seat 4: viper65 ( $1030 )
Seat 1: curbmane ( $535 )
Seat 7: nicholasha24 ( $1050 )
Seat 8: tantor24 ( $825 )
Seat 2: Bradv4 ( $1790 )
Trny:7709688 Level:4
Blinds(50/100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to MitchVW [ 8h Qh ]
viper65 folds.
MitchVW raises [300].
nicholasha24 folds.
tantor24 folds.
CapGloval folds.
curbmane is all-In.
Bradv4 folds.
MitchVW calls [235].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6c, 9s, 8d ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Qs ]
** Dealing River ** [ Tc ]
MitchVW shows [ 8h, Qh ] two pairs, queens and eights.
curbmane shows [ Js, Ac ] a straight, eight to queen.
curbmane wins 1170 chips from the main pot with a straight, eight to queen.

4th:

Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 9: CapGloval ( $1415 )
Seat 5: MitchVW ( $520 )
Seat 4: viper65 ( $1930 )
Seat 1: curbmane ( $670 )
Seat 7: nicholasha24 ( $2175 )
Seat 2: Bradv4 ( $1290 )
Trny:7709688 Level:4
Blinds(50/100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to MitchVW [ Kh Qc ]
MitchVW is all-In.
nicholasha24 folds.
CapGloval folds.
curbmane is all-In.
Bradv4 folds.
viper65 folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ks, Js, Tc ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ts ]
** Dealing River ** [ 6d ]
MitchVW shows [ Kh, Qc ] two pairs, kings and tens.
curbmane shows [ 5c, 5h ] two pairs, tens and fives.
curbmane wins 150 chips from side pot #1 with two pairs, tens and fives.
MitchVW wins 1190 chips from the main pot with two pairs, kings and tens.

5th: I was short stacked here and had to make a move.

Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 9: CapGloval ( $1065 )
Seat 5: MitchVW ( $590 )
Seat 4: viper65 ( $1480 )
Seat 1: curbmane ( $1900 )
Seat 7: nicholasha24 ( $1285 )
Seat 2: Bradv4 ( $1680 )
Trny:7709688 Level:5
Blinds(100/200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to MitchVW [ Qs Js ]
CapGloval folds.
curbmane folds.
Bradv4 raises [400].
viper65 folds.
MitchVW is all-In.
nicholasha24 folds.
Bradv4 calls [190].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7h, Td, 5s ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2c ]
** Dealing River ** [ 8h ]
Bradv4 shows [ Ks, Kh ] a pair of kings.
MitchVW shows [ Qs, Js ] high card queen.
MitchVW finished in sixth place.
Bradv4 wins 1380 chips from the main pot with a pair of kings.

6th: Shortstacked again in 4th place, had to make a move.

Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 10: dredogg00 ( $1400 )
Seat 5: MitchVW ( $550 )
Seat 4: BiggaBills ( $3740 )
Seat 3: kaybers ( $2310 )
Trny:7708531 Level:5
Blinds(100/200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to MitchVW [ 8h Jh ]
MitchVW is all-In.
dredogg00 folds.
kaybers folds.
BiggaBills calls [350].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Tc, 7c, 6h ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6d ]
** Dealing River ** [ Kc ]
MitchVW shows [ 8h, Jh ] a pair of sixes.
BiggaBills shows [ Ac, 2h ] a pair of sixes.
MitchVW finished in fourth place.
BiggaBills wins 1200 chips from the main pot with a pair of sixes with ace kicker.


Sorry if this isnt the normal caliber of post, this is my first time posting hands, and Im basically new to all of this. Should I play more or less aggressive to make larger pots than I am, ect...?

[jcm4ccc]

1st hand: I would have put him all-in on the turn. He could have been drawing to a straight, and the turn card clearly didn't help him. Make him pay to see the river.

2nd hand: Terrible hand to raise or even call from your position. Maybe if it was on the button with no limpers you could try to steal the blinds (with a 3XBB raise, not a minimum raise). I would fold this.

3rd hand: This is not good. You're hoping that five people fold to your 3XBB raise. Fold.

4th hand: A little risky because you are the first to bet. Somebody is likely to call you. Still, you have to get your money in sometime. I would probably do what you did.

5th hand: You were the small blind, right? I think your play was fine.

6th hand: I think your play was fine.

If I had to characterize one thing that would help your play--learn to appreciate your position better. Hands 2 and 3 were especially poor, given your position. Had you been on the button with no limpers, then those plays would have been better. As such, both of those hands should have been easy folds.

[MitchVW]

[ QUOTE ]
1st hand: I would have put him all-in on the turn. He could have been drawing to a straight, and the turn card clearly didn't help him. Make him pay to see the river.

2nd hand: Terrible hand to raise or even call from your position. Maybe if it was on the button with no limpers you could try to steal the blinds (with a 3XBB raise, not a minimum raise). I would fold this.

3rd hand: This is not good. You're hoping that five people fold to your 3XBB raise. Fold.

4th hand: A little risky because you are the first to bet. Somebody is likely to call you. Still, you have to get your money in sometime. I would probably do what you did.

5th hand: You were the small blind, right? I think your play was fine.

6th hand: I think your play was fine.

If I had to characterize one thing that would help your play--learn to appreciate your position better. Hands 2 and 3 were especially poor, given your position. Had you been on the button with no limpers, then those plays would have been better. As such, both of those hands should have been easy folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great post, thanks! Critisism is good, I appreciate it!

[Unarmed]

Agree with everything here.
Hand 4 is tough, I hate those situations, but yes, grit your teeth and push. If you're suited its an auto push.

Hand 1 - I dont push the turn. Just bet 2/3-full pot. There's no need to overbet this. You WANT the OESD to see the river at an incorrect price, not make a correct fold to your overbet.

[MitchVW]

Thanks, that is definantly a better way to get more in the pot. Its amazing how much better you can understand a hand and what should have been done when you can sit here and read it out.

[Unarmed]

No problem, its amazing how much easier hand histories are to read when you use the converter /images/graemlins/grin.gif

http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi

[MitchVW]

Ha! Pretty cool! As soon as I get the emailed version, Ill go up and try and edit and convert the post! Got it in my favorites now, thanks!

[(my name it is) Sam Hall]

[ QUOTE ]

5th: I was short stacked here and had to make a move.


[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't consider calling someone putting you all-in (basically what you did) making a move. No way anyone would bet 400 and then fold to an additional 190, so it's essentially calling. I know you like the odds you get from the SB but you have to respect that size raise. It's big enough to destroy your odds to call with garbage. That's the idea and you should have let it work.

Overall your play looks like it's coming along just fine. I wish I could find only six bad hands to post. I've got way more than that.

Sam

[MitchVW]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

5th: I was short stacked here and had to make a move.


[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't consider calling someone putting you all-in (basically what you did) making a move. No way anyone would bet 400 and then fold to an additional 190, so it's essentially calling. I know you like the odds you get from the SB but you have to respect that size raise. It's big enough to destroy your odds to call with garbage. That's the idea and you should have let it work.

Overall your play looks like it's coming along just fine. I wish I could find only six bad hands to post. I've got way more than that.

Sam

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, definantly what you say is valid, reason was is we were in the Level 5 at the time I believe. I had to call or go all-in or whatever, if not the blinds would have eaten up my chips, and probably been stuck with a worse hand!

[MitchVW]

Can anyone give me some assistance as to using the hand converter? I must not be cut and pasting the right stuff into it or something. Sorry for being such a noob at this stuff!

[rjb03]

[ QUOTE ]
Can anyone give me some assistance as to using the hand converter? I must not be cut and pasting the right stuff into it or something. Sorry for being such a noob at this stuff!

[/ QUOTE ]

Paste the original hand history into the upper text box. Click convert hand. Copy the bottom text box and post here.

[MitchVW]

When I do that, it tells me it cant convert it... /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[MitchVW]

Played a few SnG's tonight, came in 4th 3x's. I was short stacked each time going into it. Guess I need to learn how to play short stacked better or be more aggresive?

1st Hand: Would there be a better way to extract more chips?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (5 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, MP calls, Button calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB folds, MP calls, Button calls.

Flop: (7 SB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP calls, Button calls.

Turn: (5 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP checks, <font color="CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP folds, Button calls.

River: (9 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

Final Pot: 11 BB

2nd: Should I have folded this when the river showed?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (3 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero calls, <font color="CC3333">SB raises</font>, BB folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (5 SB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: (3.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero caps</font>, SB calls.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

3rd: Should have folded?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (5 handed)

Hero (t960)
Button (t3420)
SB (t855)
BB (t2065)
UTG (t700)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, Hero calls t400, <font color="CC3333">Button raises to t800</font>, SB folds, BB folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t960 (All-In)</font>, Button calls t160.

Flop: (t2520) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t2520) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: (t2520) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t2520

[ChrisV]

(1) Put him allin on the turn.

(2) Fold preflop. Minraises are the spawn of satan.

(3) Fold preflop, why get involved?

(4) Looks fine

(5) This is TERRIBLE. Yes, you need to make a move, but you have several more hands to do so. Try and get some fold equity, don't take on a raiser with a hand thats often dominated.

EDIT: Just noticed you're SB. That's a bit less bad but I'd still fold. QJ vs a raiser is a very poor spot.

(6) Looks fine.

[(my name it is) Sam Hall]

[ QUOTE ]
Yep, definantly what you say is valid, reason was is we were in the Level 5 at the time I believe. I had to call or go all-in or whatever, if not the blinds would have eaten up my chips, and probably been stuck with a worse hand!

[/ QUOTE ]

Mitch. You need to read this very carefully. When you say "I had to call or go all-in or whatever," it makes me think you need to read taxasrattlers thread "Gap Concept and winning SNGs." Do that, and you'll see why "call" and "bet all-in" are no where near equivalent actions even though they both involve you putting the same chips in with the same cards. That big raise in front of you meant something, as you found out at the showdown. I know it doesn't always mean KK, but you didn't mention a reason to believe it was a stone-cold bluff. A total bluff would be the only reason you'd even think of considering entertaining the thought of calling. You have four hands more to play before the blinds get you, and while I agree you do need to do something, do it when no one in front of you posts a giant sign that says "I have a good hand." Pick a place that makes THEM decide to call YOU, not the other way around. KQs may be a good hand, relativly speaking, but even with a short stack you have to learn how to put it down if it's a loser. The K8o you get on the next hand may be a winner if everyone folds to your button, you raise, and the big blind pays you off to see the flop with Q7o. Much worse hand... much better odds.

[ChrisV]

The first two are limit ring hands? I'll answer them anyway...

(1) I'd just keep betting on the turn. A free card is a minor disaster. I may even get raised.

(2) Raise preflop. Capping the river is ridiculous. Even raising is a bit dubious. Why would SB check that flop, or for that matter any flop, heads up? Either he has junk, in which case he's going to fold to your river raise, or he has an absolute rock of some kind. He flopped a set, right?

(3) Limping here is super, super weak. Raise allin. You have to shut out any Ax that may be tempted to raise if you limp.

[(my name it is) Sam Hall]

[ QUOTE ]

(3) Limping here is super, super weak. Raise allin. You have to shut out any Ax that may be tempted to raise if you limp.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I'm talking about. If you are the first one in and raise big with KQs, you may push hands that actually have you beat (or at least have a decent shot against you), but if you call such a bet, there's no such chance. Term of the day: "folding equity"

Sam

[MitchVW]

Cool deal, thanks everyone for the words of advice, playing like ya'll are stating would help me play more aggresive, which I believe is what I need. I've learned more about poker and SnG's in the last 2 days then I have in the past 3 months.. LOL

[(my name it is) Sam Hall]

[ QUOTE ]
...playing like ya'll are stating would help me play more aggresive, which I believe is what I need.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. You want to play tight aggressive and it looks like you play more loose passive. Play fewer hands, but play them harder. It's a great feeling when you can steal a mid-sized pot with absolutely nothing in level five because the only hand you've taken past the flop up to that point was a monster. People back off the first time you try that if you've been playing tight.

[MitchVW]

Yeah with how many hands I playing, I feel like I was playing Tight/passive, which I am sure doesnt mix. I wasnt playing tight enough near the end of my SnG's, and playing way to passive through out the whole time!