Stake a friend in a tournament?

[michfan]

Home tournament with 12 people, $50 buy in and one $30 addon

Top 3 spots pay

My friend is the most experienced player at the tournament.

What % of his winnings should I ask for if I stake him
a) 50% of entry fee (Including addon)
b) 100% of entry fee

[MEbenhoe]

Don't do it.

[michfan]

Why?

[Boltsfan1992]

Because it is a good way to ruin a friendship. If he does lose, is the money risk free? Does he have to pay you back? I've seen strange things happen where the best players bust in a field of weak players...I would never stake a friend nor ask a friend to stake me...creates too many problems...

[Rasputin]

Leaving the poker out of it completely, friends and money don't mix.

If you lend a friend money it has to be an amount small enough that you don't care if you ever get it back or large enough that you care more about getting it back than you do about ever seeing that friend again.

So going in ask yourself "My money or my friend, which do I want?"

[smoore]

I'd just loan him $100 and tell him he's got to bring snacks too! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[mosch]

I've done this, and given the friend a 50% freeroll, but even against suckers I had no expectation of them winning. I viewed it as entertainment that was probably +EV.

If you can't afford to happily kiss the money good-bye, don't do it.

[EliteNinja]

Friends and money don't mix. Simple as that.

[smoore]

I'm surprised to hear poker players say "friends and money don't mix". I have a huge disregard for the value of money and thought that was pretty universal among gamblers. If it costs me $100 to never have to see a welcher again I consider it cheap.

[michfan]

This amount of $ is not really an issue for either of us and I am 100% certain that the results of the tournament will not effect the friendship

I was going to stake him just for fun because I will be at the party where the tourney will be played , but can not play myself (don't ask)

STRICTLY from a mathematical standpoint, what is fair return on my investment?

Thanks

[magiluke]

It depends on how you look at it. If you are 'lending him' money, then you should get exaclty what you gave him back. If you are 'investing' in him to win the tournament, you shouldn't get any money back if he loses. If he wins, he would obviously have to give you back what you invested. I would say a fair number would be 10 - 20% over your total investment.

If you lend him $50, and he wins $500, you should be getting $95 - 140 back, depending on what you guys agree on. That sounds about fair =)

[DesertCat]

You should take no less than 50% of his winnings, after your investment is repaid. I.e. if he wins $450 and you invest $50, first you get your $50, and you split $400 with him.

Think of it this way. If his EV is 2x the average player, and all players rebuy, then his expectation is $80 profit. He's risking zero to make $80. You are risking $80 to win $80.

But is splitting the winnings fair to you? Assume he cashes half the time, so his average win is $320. In that circumstance you get your $80 back and split the other $240 with him($200 total to you, $120 to him). The other half of the time you get nothing. Average net gain to you is $20. Average net gain to him is $60. If these assumptions were accurate (and assuming my math is too), you'd probably be right in asking for two thirds of the net winnings...

[TomBrooks]

IF HE LOSES: You get nothing back.

IF HE WINS:

As a starting point for ease of calculation, let’s assume the other eleven players were of equal skill to your horse.

The expectation of his coming in any particular place would then be 1 in 12 or 8 1/2%. The expectation is that he would win once, come in second once, third once and each of 4th -12th places once for every 12 games played.

11/12 of the risk is yours. Therefore 11/12 of the winnings is your break even point. The last 1/12 is your profit expectation that you have available to split with him.

When he wins first place, say for $500, you would need to take at least $458. before you consider the size of his split or you would be making a sucker bet or paying him out of your pocket for entertainment purposes only.

BUT, he is the best player there, so the above can be modified. I'm not sure how to come up with that adjustment. Maybe you would have to estimate how much better he is than each other player and then do an averaging calculation to come up with a fair figure.

Anyway, an elementary analysis shows that the amount you need to get back to be monetarily fair may be far more one might think at first blush.

If he was playing heads up with only one other player of equal strength, you would be talking about a 50% split as a starting point. But that is far different than when he has 11 opponents.

If you’re looking at it as being for entertainment, then just consider anything you give him above your fair expectation as fun money and don't worry about it.

TomBk

[Cornell Fiji]

(Tournament Earnings - Tournament Buyin) * 0.50

Chop it up and have a good time watching him make you money.

Obviously you wouldnt be asking this if you weren't prepared to lose if he lost.