QQ first hand of $30 sit n go

[ZManODS]

Blinds 5/10
QQ first hand of $30 sit n go. Im on the button.
MP raises to 30, MP+1 calls, I go all in.

Does this seem reasonable? I know there are many people that play these sit n gos that just LOVE to gamble the first hand.

Well as it turns out i got called by both limpers. MP1 had AJd and MP+1 had A4o!!! Of course an ace came on the flop and i lost.

Anyone else make this move here?

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I don't think I'd ever bet 1000 into a 75 pot preflop.

[willperkins]

I just call with this hand. Someone raises 3XBB and then someone else calls him?

I call and see the flop. If an Ace or K come and someone bets, I fold.

It is very early in the tourney, the blinds are very small and you have lots of chips.

I assume this is PP. Why would you bet t800 to win t75?

[ZManODS]

It was actually on Paradise. The only reason i bet so much was because i know people will call with trash the first few hands in a sit n go. The only hands im really afraid of are AA, KK or AK. Going by the vast number of hands that will call me in this situation is this move smart? Ive heard of the reasoning "You will only be called by better hands", but that simply is not the case in these sit n go's

[Sidekick]

First hand of the tourney I would just call the raise and see what the flop brings. If an A or K lands and I'm bet into I will drop the hand.

Too many people will play Axo for all their chips at level 1 and hope to double up and when they call your all-in and the ace lands (which it usually seems to do when I have queens...) then you are toast.

I don't want to risk my entire stack to win 75 chips on the first hand of the tournament. I call the raise and hope to get a favorable flop and THEN start raising the pot.

[rjb03]

[ QUOTE ]
First hand of the tourney I would just call the raise and see what the flop brings. If an A or K lands and I'm bet into I will drop the hand.

Too many people will play Axo for all their chips at level 1 and hope to double up and when they call your all-in and the ace lands (which it usually seems to do when I have queens...) then you are toast.

I don't want to risk my entire stack to win 75 chips on the first hand of the tournament. I call the raise and hope to get a favorable flop and THEN start raising the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't this be an argument for pushing QQ?

[Voltron87]

I think you made a fine play, people will make stupid calls (like with a lone ace) early in the tourney. You got a damn good situation, but were outdrawn. Theres nothing wrong with the play.

You got all your money in on a 70/30, it's hard to say your play was terrible.

[texasrattlers]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

First hand of the tourney I would just call the raise and see what the flop brings. If an A or K lands and I'm bet into I will drop the hand.

Too many people will play Axo for all their chips at level 1 and hope to double up and when they call your all-in and the ace lands (which it usually seems to do when I have queens...) then you are toast.

I don't want to risk my entire stack to win 75 chips on the first hand of the tournament. I call the raise and hope to get a favorable flop and THEN start raising the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]



Wouldn't this be an argument for pushing QQ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep.

[ZManODS]

[ QUOTE ]
Too many people will play Axo for all their chips at level 1 and hope to double up and when they call your all-in...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what im getting at. Lets see some hands and how they would do against me.
AA or KK: its around 80%/20%
AK: im the favorite with 56%/44%
AQ: im the favorite with 70%/30%
AJ or Ax: im the favorite with around 70%/30%

Im ahead of all but AA or KK. Like you said, people will play any Ax in the first hand of a tournament. Also, if you get a good lead in these sit n go's you can easily do well.

[ZManODS]

Exactly, im not trying to say this a +EV move in a cash game, but given the terrible play of most players in these sit n go's it seemed like a good play.

[zephyr]

I think your play is fine. The reason it makes sense is that you're not trying to steal the pot here. Instead you're hoping for a call by a weak ace, or an underpair, both of which will call preflop, but likely not post flop unless they're ahead of you. Given the range of hands you'll be called with here, I think this play has good $EV, and is very good for your $/hr.

Zephyr

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
I think this play has good $EV, and is very good for your $/hr.



[/ QUOTE ]

i think that's an excellent point. i'm primarily a cash game player, and it always struck me as weird that more tournament players didn't take this into account.

[theantelope]

I think it really depends on why you're playing poker. I think very few of us are really playing for the money alone. Many pros say that they make more money in ring games, but they still play tournaments. If you value the fun and competitive aspects of tournament play, and there isn't another tournament you can jump into if you bust out it seems fine to me to focus less on hourly rate and more on placing well in individual tournaments. Same is true if you get a great deal of psychic value from placing high in a tournament, or if you get a great deal of disutility from busting out of tournaments early.

But if you care only about the money, obviously you are right.

[zephyr]

We're talking about sng's here. There's always another one waiting, and if you're getting emotional highs and low's based on how you place in individual ones then you're obviously not a serious player.

I agree with you on much much bigger tournaments.

Zephyr

[Al Mirpuri]

You are actually a dog to AKo if you go allin as AKo gets to see the next five cards and beats you.

[Apathy]

[ QUOTE ]
You are actually a dog to AKo if you go allin as AKo gets to see the next five cards and beats you.

[/ QUOTE ]

huh?

[Al Mirpuri]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You are actually a dog to AKo if you go allin as AKo gets to see the next five cards and beats you.

[/ QUOTE ]

huh?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry misread some stats. Rushed the post. Only my own stupidity to blame. Sorry once again.

You are 56-44 against AK pf, but 75-25 on the flop if there is no overcard to your pair. It might be better to wait until the flop to push.

[stripsqueez]

i think its a bad play

the risk may look right in tournament chip EV terms but given you have a positive expectation in this tournament its way too much of a risk

to put it in the over used mathematical terms - if you started the tourney with T1600 and only 8 opponents would your expectation of winning money be doubled when compared with starting with T800 and 9 opponents ? - ie consider your expectation when you do double up early in a SNG

i reckon the answer is that your expectation after doubling up early increases substantially but falls comfortably short of double your starting expectation - this is a simple explanation of why its right not to take substantial risks early in a tourney - ie because the reward isnt accurately measured by the tourney chips you win

i think pushing in this spot is taking the ultimate risk with a projected reward that simply doesnt compensate

take a smaller risk by seeing a favourable flop before you start investing heavily this early - the chooks who called your push pre-flop with garbage do the same awful things and sometimes worse things post-flop

stripsqueez - chickenhawk