7-Stud Hi/Lo Strategy Question

[grandgnu]

Hello all:

I am currently wetting my feet in the $.50/$1 and $1/$2 games online. I like the hi/lo varients of games because it seems there are plenty of idiots who will bet into an obvious low with a pair showing on board (and nothing else improved)

Anyway, my current strategy is to only play the following starting hands:

1. Three to a low
2. Three to a flush
3. Three of a kind

I drop pocket pairs like Kings and such faster than you can say "ambersal!" I just had my trip aces (first three cards) busted by a low of 3/4/5/6/7 which caught the 4 on the river. Ouch.

Anyway, what does everyone think of only playing those really strong starting hands? I figure it's good strategy in the lower limits and I can get a lot of the idiots with lesser lows or pocket pairs or whatever to pay off my lows.

Any other advice is always appreciated. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Andy B]

I must warn you that I have had a few this evening, but

1) If you're routinely playing hands like 872, you're costing yourself money.

2) If you're routinely playing semi-dead three-flushes you're costing yourself money.

3) If you're routinely playing hands like Q/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif 3/images/graemlins/club.gif in less-than-ideal situations, you're costing yourself money.

4) If you're throwing away hands like A-A-baby, you're really costing yourself money.

That said, most of your money is made on very good hands. If you're just starting out, you might do well to avoid marginal situations. I would have done well to avoid some marginal situations last night....

/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Cheers,

Andy B

Drinking and posting since 1999

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
I must warn you that I have had a few this evening, but

1) If you're routinely playing hands like 872, you're costing yourself money.

2) If you're routinely playing semi-dead three-flushes you're costing yourself money.

3) If you're routinely playing hands like Q/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif 3/images/graemlins/club.gif in less-than-ideal situations, you're costing yourself money.

4) If you're throwing away hands like A-A-baby, you're really costing yourself money.

That said, most of your money is made on very good hands. If you're just starting out, you might do well to avoid marginal situations. I would have done well to avoid some marginal situations last night....

/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Cheers,

Andy B

Drinking and posting since 1999

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Andy, appreciate the reply. To respond to your post:

1. Any three to the low I like to play. I can see quite clearly by the board who has a potential low and who doesn't. If I can see it's likely I'm beat, I can get out, it's a limit game.

2. I won't play the flush draw if there are numerous suited cards that match mine already showing on the board. If there's only one of my cards out then I'm game, but I won't be chasing to the river if I'm not catching the flush cards and instead everyone else is.

3. Not exactly sure what you mean by less than ideal situations? A queen high flush isn't great, but it's certainly not bad. If I see someone showing A/J on board of hearts and not a lot of other hearts out then I'm careful not to get trapped.

4. The hands I throw away are pocket Kings or lower. Pocket aces with another low card I keep, although I have zero problem tossing my aces if I feel I'm being outdrawn or chasing.

Essentially, I don't do a lot of bluffing cause at these limits the players are pretty much unbluffable. I just try to play what I believe to be premium hands for the game.

Any other advice is always welcome. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Wu36]

[ QUOTE ]

1. Any three to the low I like to play. I can see quite clearly by the board who has a potential low and who doesn't. If I can see it's likely I'm beat, I can get out, it's a limit game.


3. Not exactly sure what you mean by less than ideal situations? A queen high flush isn't great, but it's certainly not bad. If I see someone showing A/J on board of hearts and not a lot of other hearts out then I'm careful not to get trapped.



[/ QUOTE ]
Mandatory disclaimer: I suck.
1. Let the fish play 872, 863 and other useless 1 way hands.
3. In stud 8, Q93s is damn near terrible. Drawing to a flush for half the pot isn't the best idea.

[jomatty]

in the games you are now playing you probablyu are fine sticking to a very tight overall strategy. as you move up some games will be tighter and if a lot of pots are shorthanded the big pairs like Kings go up in value and may be worth a play. that said you could probably never play a pair of kings for the rest of your life and as long as you dont play shorthended do fine but you would be passing on some profitable situations.
matty

[grandgnu]

Really appreciate your replys. I see what you mean about the Q/9/3 drawing to a flush and no low.

And also about moving up and being able to play the Kings and such. I still think it's possible at these lower limits to make money with the three cards to an 8-low hands. You can usually see fairly well what type of hands the other players have.

I don't know how many times I've seen someone with a board of J/10/10 betting into someone with A/2/4 suited and getting re-raised and then re-raising themselves. Then they start complaining in the chat box when their single pair of 10's that became 10's over 3's on the river gets busted by the low and the flush. Unreal how terrible these people are.

[Andy B]

Wu36 covered some of this, but

An Eight is the minimum low hand. I've seen Queen-high take half of some pretty nice pots, so that's about the minimum you need there. You're not going to draw to that, are you? Most three-card Sevens are playable in most spots, although if it's raised by an Ace or a low card, you should probably dump 732. A three-card Eight is usually only playable if it is the only low, if it has solid straight possibilities, or if it has an Ace and a wheel card. It is much better for the Eight to be in the hole so that your weakness isn't laid out there for the world to see.

If your three-flush doesn't have two low cards, there must be no more than one of your suit out, and you can't pay more than one bet. It's much better if you can get in for the bring-in. I love flush draws in high-only stud, but playing for half the pot changes everything.

Play those Aces when they're split, too. Hands like (66)4 are pretty good too if you can get in cheap. If you make trips but look like you've made a low, you can knock out the other low hands and get paid by the high hands. It doesn't get much better than that.

Get Ray Zee's book. No matter how small you're playing, it will pay for itself quickly.

[grandgnu]

Thanks again for the advice Andy. For the most part I play mostly only three-low starting hands, or like you said, a flush draw with at least two low cards (or with straight possibilities also)

I prefer to be 7-high for my lows at worst, although I have dumped made 8-lows to what looked like better lows numerous times, to only find out the guy holding 6/4/3 and betting didn't have a low at all, but like you said, trips or whatnot.

[Nick_Foxx]

even at the lower limits on-line (.50/1 up to say 3/6), i feel you have to have a pretty good grasp of how to play the high hands... this is because if you just muck them in profitable-looking situations, you'll end up costing yourself a lot of chips... and, as andy pointed out, these hands play great heads-up... and i'm sure you've noticed already, you have to know how to play short-handed to make $$, because people are constantly getting up and leaving even on-line (zee mentions this phenomena in card rooms, which i've witnessed as well - i'm not sure why this is the case)

mike

[Al Mirpuri]

Ray Zee gives a list of hands to play in his book High Low Split Poker. I suggest you purchase and read it.

As for the "idiots", well even they get tired of running into the nuts. I play micro limits stud, though have played serious money no limit seven stud, and even at the micro limits the producers wisen up so loosen up to keep getting the action. Ray's book will make it clear to you.

[Andy B]

I think that the reason that so many people walk in this game is because it's so frustrating. You have a big draw and it misses. You make a Six-low in a monster pot and someone out-pips you. Your rolled-up trips don't improve and you pay off the small straight that the other guy made on the river. There are a lot of hands that just leave me talking to myself. It happens in other games too, but I think that it's a little worse in this game. It's gotta be even worse for people who think that high straight draws are real hands, or who draw to Eights when someone is showing 346 on board. That's gotta be really frustrating. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that the reason that so many people walk in this game is because it's so frustrating. You have a big draw and it misses. You make a Six-low in a monster pot and someone out-pips you. Your rolled-up trips don't improve and you pay off the small straight that the other guy made on the river. There are a lot of hands that just leave me talking to myself. It happens in other games too, but I think that it's a little worse in this game. It's gotta be even worse for people who think that high straight draws are real hands, or who draw to Eights when someone is showing 346 on board. That's gotta be really frustrating. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if someone is showing 3/4/6 on board and you're sticking around with an 8-low, that's your own fault. I just enjoy it when I've got four to a low and I'm facing a board of people holding unsuited K/2, Q/7, J/5 and they're betting into you and calling the raises with their pair of 5's or whatever.

[Andy B]

Careful what you wish for: recently, I bet my open AA into two guys who had J5o. They both called, and one of them made a flush and a low to scoop my sorry ass.

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
Careful what you wish for: recently, I bet my open AA into two guys who had J5o. They both called, and one of them made a flush and a low to scoop my sorry ass.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh heh. I was just playing pot limit omaha hi/lo yesterday (the $25 table) and held A/2/3/5 and the flop was 2/4/J and there had already been a lot of pre-flop raising going on (this table was full of frigging maniacs, so you're either going to get rich or go broke)

So my $25 is down to $14 when the flop hits and this kid who held a J and I don't recall the other cards he had, but nothing all that great, is betting the pot. So I figure no matter what low card comes up I'm getting at least half the pot, and maybe the whole thing if the right low card hits.

Well, everyone and their brother is calling, so the pots up to around 70 bucks and I toss in my last 14 to call the raise. The turn is a J and the river.........a J. No low for me, but the kid with the J scoops it all with quads. Ouch.