Poker Busts

[Matt Flynn]

Looks like North Carolina law enforcement is bowing to political pressure. Or something.

The latest bust in Greensboro:

http://www.news-record.com/news/local/gso/webpoker_120304.htm

Cops infiltrated the game and played for a looong time before they busted it. Either they were having too much fun, finally lost too much because they couldn't play well, or finally couldn't hold off their bosses. I suspect the latter, because for the most part the cops here are good guys. Shoot we've all played with enough of them, knowing full well they were cops.

The recent bust in Charlotte:

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/local/10259616.htm

News report says the investigation has been going on for a year. Again, those cops were playing a loong time before the bust. Sounds like the cops would've preferred to just leave everyone alone.

Durham lawyer fights back:

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/news/120104_NW_poker.html

The really sad thing is it is legal to bet on games of skill in North Carolina. The Durham lawyer is suing to demonstrate that poker is a game of skill, and therefore legal to wager on. Even though holdem, razz, omaha, etc (without wild cards) are obviously games of skill, there will be tremendous political pressure on the supposedly impartial judge to say it's luck. Or something ridiculous like "it's 57% luck." Talk about an argument for higher math standards in schools. Too bad we don't have propositions like they do in California, so we could put it on the ballot. All the self-righteous religious groups would come out against it, polls would show it losing, and then it would win handily.

In the meantime all live poker is now dead.

Matt

[theBruiser500]

That's ridiculous, it's beyond me how people can take it upon themselves to force other people to not do things like play poker. Besides that, I thought it was legal to play poker as long as there is no house taking rake.

"One of the players cited Thursday evening told officers that he was a surgeon who was scheduled to perform surgery this morning." Yeah good point.

"However, ALE agents confiscated their entry fees, all the poker chips and any additional cash the players had on them. It all would go to state government as part of the penalty for a subsequent guilty plea or verdict." Does this strike anyone else as extremely arbitrary or unfair? Some people will have more money than other people.

"Huntersville police arrested two men Tuesday and sought a third in connection with an illegal gambling operation that police say netted up to several thousand dollars a night from poker games at their townhouse." Here they mischaraterize poker, it sounds like they are running a house game of craps.

What a joke this whole thing is.

[theBruiser500]

How come there are no other responses, isn't anyone else indignant about this?

[bww]

I'll respond with a few opinions

1) Cops will not bother these games unless a complaint is
filed
2)ALE will get involved if alcohol is being served
3)These were not "Home games" , at both places games
were being run several nights a week and the rake
was the sole income of the people running these games.
4) You cannot advertise on the internet for players
and expect a games like these to last.
5)In Charlotte's case you cannot run it the way he did
in a residential area and not expect complaints.

As a Vice friend of mine told me today, they knew about
the game in Greensboro but someone complained and they had no choice. They do not care about home games. But 15-30,
30-60 games w/alcohol draw attention and the first complaint
they get , they respond.

[Rick Nebiolo]

Matt,

I think BWW in his response below put it in perspective - in a nutshell, these where private games were rake was taken and the games were held in areas that elicited neighbor complaints. Of course that's easy for me to say, I live within 35 minutes or less of all the major (and legal) Los Angeles Clubs /images/graemlins/smile.gif. They were voted in awhile back, now of course the citizens no longer have the right to vote for new (and maybe better) ones.

That said, you might be interested in Bob Ciaffone's Cardplayer article (http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/?a_id=14392).

~ Regards,

Rick

[jakethebake]

I'm disappointed. I thought this thread was going to be about "busts". /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[HUSKER'66]

[ QUOTE ]
That's ridiculous, it's beyond me how people can take it upon themselves to force other people to not do things like play poker. Besides that, I thought it was legal to play poker as long as there is no house taking rake.



[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately there were several mistakes made in violation of current North Carolina law.

You can hold poker "home" games as long as they are not played for real money. There have been several bars/restaurants hosting "hold 'em" nights and giving away "prizes" not cash, not charging a rake of any kind, and having no real money involved as far as entry fees etc.

The "home" games were charging for alcohol without a liquor license issued by the state ABC (alcoholic beverage commission).....again another no-no in NC.

I think it's a shame, having previously lived there for many years and still having family there. I've heard that the one Cherokee casino is talking about putting in tables next year but don't know all the details. I hope they do...my parents have retired to the mountain area not far from there and it would be nice to play when I go out for a visit.

[theBruiser500]

"Unfortunately there were several mistakes made in violation of current North Carolina law.

You can hold poker "home" games as long as they are not played for real money. There have been several bars/restaurants hosting "hold 'em" nights and giving away "prizes" not cash, not charging a rake of any kind, and having no real money involved as far as entry fees etc."

That is a lame law. People shouldn't have to worry about making those kinds of "mistakes."

[Matt Flynn]

as far as i know, alcohol was free. they got 'em on alcohol for raking a game and then providing beer.

[Matt Flynn]

Rick,

Thanks for the link. I dearly miss California and its sensible approach.

North Carolina, like several states, has a lot of laws that everyone ignores because they make no sense. It is so bad here that the state-owned liquor stores aren't even in the phone book, and several homes have "Baptist bars," hidden cabinets in the living room for the liquor.

Matt

[Wayfare]

You should send around a petition and get it to your congressman.

Don't like the laws? Try to change em (look at Cali).

[Matt Flynn]

i will do no such thing. that's why we have college kids, who have the unique combination of free time, idealism and most importantly little to lose.

matt

[theBruiser500]

hahaha, nice

[Wayfare]

Very snappy, but do you really think writing your congressman will cause you to "lose" something?

Maybe only your political ennui. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[fsuplayer]

Very snappy, but do you really think writing your congressman will cause you to "lose" something?

hell, matt, why dont you invite him to your game? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Matt Flynn]

writing him? no. collecting pro-alcohol signatures? yes. clearly you have no experience living in the south.

matt

[Matt Flynn]

as if he didn't play already ;-)

[nicky g]

"writing him? no. collecting pro-alcohol signatures? yes. clearly you have no experience living in the south. "

As someone who also has no experience of living in the American South, I would like to know what consequences collecting "pro-alcohol signatures" would give rise to.

[Wayfare]

So far that has been because of pure luck (and good university picking), but from now on it will be by choice.

I was talking about pro-gambling sigs and not alchohol, but it would probably have the same effect.

[Matt Flynn]

one example: once the process gets going it becomes news. my name might make it into the papers or tv. i am a known figure. a known professional would then be seen "promoting" alcohol or gambling in many eyes. it's not a big leap at all to imagine simutaneous sermons in many churches on Sunday specifically naming me as an evil person who is supporting drinking and gambling, a person "not from around here," a sinner, an unsaved soul. some of my referring docs would stop referring to me. many of my patients, even though they like me and are treated well, would leave.

[mosta]

there are several local bars in the suburbs of new orleans that host weekly NLHE tourneys (generally 10-30 players, buy-in around $50). there's been some talk of the police starting to put some heat on, and they've known about the games for a long time of course, probably because of whatever complaints; but it looks like the games might survive because there is no rake and no fee. every cent stays in the prize pool (and it is paid in cash). the casinos won't like it (and that must be who's complaining because it cost them dearly to get in and stay in the legal gambling business), but it's great for players because the games are packed to the gills with fish, so to speak.

[jakethebake]

Still no pictures of "busts" on this thread? Damn you!