A few lunchtime hands for review [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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SomethingClever

12-03-2004, 05:44 PM

Hand 1: I think I would've seen the turn in the past, but there's no reason, right?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
2 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets, Hero folds.

Hand 2: Ideal checkraise, no?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
1 fold, Hero calls, UTG+2 raises, 2 folds, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+2 bets, MP3 raises, SB folds, BB folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG+2 caps, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Hand 3: Does this turn bet have any semi-bluff value?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, MP1 calls, Hero raises, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, SB folds, MP1 folds.

Turn: (5.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets....

Last one: How to proceed from here?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
3 folds, MP1 calls, 4 folds, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, MP1 folds, SB calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises...

The T.A.

12-03-2004, 06:26 PM

Hand 1: Too tight. You have a backdoor nut-flush draw, and one overcard. That's worth calling one bet on the flop. Throw away on the turn if you don't improve.

The T.A.

12-03-2004, 06:28 PM

Hand 2: Do NOT check-raise. If it's checked around, you are making a critical error by giving away a freecard with a flush-draw on the board. You can check-raise the flop it it's a rainbow, but with a flushdraw, this is a big no-no.

SomethingClever

12-03-2004, 06:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: Too tight. You have a backdoor nut-flush draw, and one overcard. That's worth calling one bet on the flop. Throw away on the turn if you don't improve.

[/ QUOTE ]

So... like 4.5 outs? I don't think the pot odds justify it.

The T.A.

12-03-2004, 06:33 PM

Hand 3: You've pretty much earned your freecard by betting on the flop. If you feel that you have a good chance of knocking out a few opponents (or just taking the pot down) on the turn, by all means, bet. It appears that all the other players have shown weakness at this point, so it probably is the right decision to bet.

If you're called, you will win the pot with any diamond, and probably, with any Q or K. I like your chances.

runa

12-03-2004, 06:36 PM

Hand 1:
3 outs with backdoor flush and overcard in a fairly small pot (possibly protected). It seems like an ok fold.

Hand 2:
Given your relative position I like.

Hand 3:
This would probably be more read-dependent. If this guy is a calling station or overly-aggo likes to turn raise this has no merit, otherwise HU it is an ok bet.

Hand 4:
My default play wavers between calling and folding and I can see cases for both. This looks like a trash hand hit small 2-pair or if this player is particularly tricky semi-bluffing, so you may have some outs and you can call/fold unimproved. The pot is pretty small though so I would probably be more inclined to muck. I'm not sure though.

SomethingClever

12-03-2004, 06:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2: Do NOT check-raise. If it's checked around, you are making a critical error by giving away a freecard with a flush-draw on the board. You can check-raise the flop it it's a rainbow, but with a flushdraw, this is a big no-no.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's my thinking on this hand.

1) I'm not too worried about it getting checked around with the preflop raiser directly to my left and this large field.

2) If I bet and the player to my left raises, it faces the field with two cold. I want people to stick around and pay me off with hopeless overcards, gutshots, bottom pair, etc. Flush draws aren't folding, period, so I might as well trap the field for as many bets as I can while I'm ahead.

Am I wrong?

The T.A.

12-03-2004, 06:40 PM

Hand 4: Tricky one here. SB didn't check-raise on the flop, so you can put AA, or AK out of the question. Maybe he's drawing to a good flush, or has a low pocket pair, which in either case, would've implied that he made the error by calling your bets preflop.

In any case, if someone shows aggression like this, I'd just put them on a set of fours, and call all the way down to the river. If he doesn't have a set of fours, he's just playing plain weird.

SomethingClever

12-03-2004, 06:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 3: You've pretty much earned your freecard by betting on the flop. If you feel that you have a good chance of knocking out a few opponents (or just taking the pot down) on the turn, by all means, bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, the flop bet was for value. We're heads-up on the turn, so I'm happy with a fold, but not really unhappy with a call since I have probably 15 outs and I could be ahead. A raise isn't great, but of course I have to call it.

My question is, does the chance he might fold right there make up for the value I'm "losing" when I'm behind?

The T.A.

12-03-2004, 06:47 PM

I'd say yes. At this point, it looks like he's incredibly weak, and you have A LOT of outs on the river.

Monty Cantsin

12-03-2004, 06:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Am I wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is right on in my book.

/mc

The T.A.

12-03-2004, 06:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: Too tight. You have a backdoor nut-flush draw, and one overcard. That's worth calling one bet on the flop. Throw away on the turn if you don't improve.

[/ QUOTE ]

So... like 4.5 outs? I don't think the pot odds justify it.

[/ QUOTE ]
The implied odds might justify it, though. It appears as though the guy ahead of you will bet no matter what, so if you do improve, you're in good shape.

(sorry I'm answering your posts out of order, btw)

Avatar

12-03-2004, 06:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: Too tight. You have a backdoor nut-flush draw, and one overcard. That's worth calling one bet on the flop. Throw away on the turn if you don't improve.

[/ QUOTE ]

So... like 4.5 outs? I don't think the pot odds justify it.

[/ QUOTE ]
The implied odds might justify it, though. It appears as though the guy ahead of you will bet no matter what, so if you do improve, you're in good shape.

(sorry I'm answering your posts out of order, btw)

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think implied odds justify it at all. If he spikes his A on the turn, there is a strong chance villain checks. Even if villain bets, and your pair of aces holds, I don't think it is worth it. And remember, Ace on the turn won't always be 100% good by river.

The T.A.

12-03-2004, 06:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2: Do NOT check-raise. If it's checked around, you are making a critical error by giving away a freecard with a flush-draw on the board. You can check-raise the flop it it's a rainbow, but with a flushdraw, this is a big no-no.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's my thinking on this hand.

1) I'm not too worried about it getting checked around with the preflop raiser directly to my left and this large field.

2) If I bet and the player to my left raises, it faces the field with two cold. I want people to stick around and pay me off with hopeless overcards, gutshots, bottom pair, etc. Flush draws aren't folding, period, so I might as well trap the field for as many bets as I can while I'm ahead.

Am I wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]
That's true. If you have a solid read on the preflop raiser on your left, yes, it would be safe to check. But just generally speaking, if you don't have a read, or are unsure, bet out.

You are never making an error by betting out here, but if you want to check-raise, make sure at least one guy (preferably closest to your left) is going to bet out.

sfer

12-03-2004, 06:59 PM

Hand 1: Fine

Hand 2: Me likey. I hope you're checking, intending to raise the turn. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Hand 3: It depends on the opponent. Some like to see a lot of turn cards and then fold, some like to slowplay. Against trickies, I check. Against weakies, I bet.

Hand 4: That's a good spot to check the turn intending to call a river blank.

SomethingClever

12-03-2004, 06:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But just generally speaking, if you don't have a read, or are unsure, bet out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that's fair. When in doubt, bet.

In fact, I was about to auto-bet this, when I remembered the preflop raise and re-considered.

SomethingClever

12-03-2004, 07:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 4: That's a good spot to check the turn intending to call a river blank.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think identifying these situations is something I really need to work on.

BottlesOf

12-03-2004, 07:26 PM

I didn't reeeeeally look carefully, but Hand 4.

You gotta worry about clubs, spades, Queens and Aces. I don't think this is the right spot to check behind.

SomethingClever

12-03-2004, 07:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't reeeeeally look carefully, but Hand 4.

You gotta worry about clubs, spades, Queens and Aces. I don't think this is the right spot to check behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you fold to the checkraise here? I generally think all other players are full of [censored], so I err on the side of calling down. But lately it seems like I get owned every time I do this.

BottlesOf

12-03-2004, 07:32 PM

Yes I would fold to the c/r. Unless I have a read that the guy is tricky and might c/r a draw or a hand I can beat, I think betting and folding is best here.

When SFer sees these responses, he'll chime in and possibly disagree.

The other hands look fine, btw.

runa

12-03-2004, 07:32 PM

Is there a particular reason you didn't include any reads on these players?

SomethingClever

12-03-2004, 07:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is there a particular reason you didn't include any reads on these players?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I wasn't playing on my home computer, so I didn't have my pokertracker database or note file. And I hadn't been playing long enough at these particular tables to really get solid reads on many players.

Also, in general, I think it's often helpful to know how to proceed without a read. If you've got a read that you trust, it should tell you what to do!

runa

12-03-2004, 07:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Also, in general, I think it's often helpful to know how to proceed without a read.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I just wasn't sure if you wanted to analyze these for default reactions or if you had just sat down, etc. Esp. since these decisions (Hands 3 & 4 in particular) are affected significantly by reads.

[ QUOTE ]
If you've got a read that you trust, it should tell you what to do!

[/ QUOTE ]

Sometimes you have reads, but translating them into proper reactions isn't necessarily straightforward.

MarkD

12-03-2004, 08:18 PM

For what it's worth I'm with you on this one. I think this is a bad spot to check behind on the turn.

sfer

12-04-2004, 06:33 PM

Yeah, I think you're right. But I'm much more worried about giving AQ a free look than the fact that the board is double suited.