Flop the nut straight -- how to best protect my hand? [Archive]

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MisterKing

12-03-2004, 12:22 PM

After flopping the nut straight, I struggled throughout this hand to come up with the optimal strategy for forcing my opponents into "lose-lose" drawing situations as discussed in SSH. I wonder if those of you more enlightened in post-flop hand protection might help me out...

This was a loose, mildly aggressive table as 2/4 goes on Party. Two bets on even marginal hands (Axs) pre-flop was often the case, but three-betting and capping was rather infrequent. Players, as usual at this limit, were going waaay to far with their hands.

Relevant reads are: UTG is a fishy semi-LAG, VP$IP of about 30, 10% PFR. CO is more of the ultra-loose/passive type, VP$IP of over 60, PFR of less than 5.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero checks.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps, MP2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Ok, I know I'm best *at the moment*, but fear multiple sets and perhaps a flush draw or two. Both types of hands have ways of easily destroying my hand. Is there any way to make these guys hurt on the flop, or is it best to keep the pot small and wait to ram on the turn when a blank falls?

Turn: (11.25 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, CO calls, Button folds, Hero raises, UTG 3-bets, CO calls, Hero caps, UTG calls, CO calls.

This street seemed to be a no brainer. Charge the max, right?

River: (23.25 BB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, CO folds.

Which is better, leading the river, or check-raising? I didn't think I'd be bluffed by missed flush draws, and I don't think anything but AA, KK, QQ, or 88 is betting into me here. Maybe 66 and 44, but hard to say. I reasoned that I'll definitely get at least one call if I bet, and maybe a raise that I could 3-bet, but if I checked, my expected return would be less as it could easily be checked behind.

Final Pot: 25.25 BB
Main Pot: 25.25 BB, between Hero and UTG.

Aces McGee

12-03-2004, 12:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is there any way to make these guys hurt on the flop, or is it best to keep the pot small and wait to ram on the turn when a blank falls?

[/ QUOTE ]

How are you going to keep the pot small when they are going bananas?

-McGee

MoreWineII

12-03-2004, 12:35 PM

I don't think there is any way you're keeping the pot small with these guys.

You've got the nizzle dizzles, just keep betting and hoping these nuts keep raising. Who cares about protecting your hand - nobody with a flush draw or set is folding anyway - whether you put one bet in or a hundred.

I like just betting the river, hopefully you get raised again.

Evan

12-03-2004, 12:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Which is better, leading the river, or check-raising?

[/ QUOTE ]
3 words. TRI-FEC-TA

Seriously, you have to bet, but check-raising would be a lot of fun.

SamIAm

12-03-2004, 12:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think anything but AA, KK, QQ, or 88 is betting into me here.

[/ QUOTE ]And with guys like this, do you really think they'd limp-in preflop with those pairs? Seems unlikely. I agree with betting-out on the river, especially with the likelyhood of them raising you. They probably wouldn't 3-bet your check-raise.

[ QUOTE ]
or is it best to keep the pot small

[/ QUOTE ]I thought this was a joke. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'm surprised with the check-raise on the flop. I mean, it worked out great, but I'd be worried about getting action with such a tiny flop. I guess with 5 players it's generally ok (and specifically, you get to check-3bet, which is great. And then you're CALLED, which is unreal.)

I agree Turn's a no-brainer.

That's a nice pot for 57s. /images/graemlins/smile.gif
-Sam

mistrpug

12-03-2004, 12:42 PM

After capping the turn, I'm not so sure a river check/raise will work. I like betting out. Very nice hand overall.

Fat Nicky

12-03-2004, 12:45 PM

Nice hand. I wouldn't change a thing. It's not often where you flop the nuts, have 4 other players in on a capped flop and 3 on a capped turn. No one seems to be slowing down, so why should you.

MisterKing

12-03-2004, 12:53 PM

UTG turns over... drumroll please... JJ. God bless Party Poker.

Thanks for your input guys... I was half-kidding about keeping the pot small, but was 100% serious about the question of "was there anything I could have done differently to maximize my chance of winning?"

I too was shocked at the amount of action I got, particularly on the turn.

Sarge85

12-03-2004, 12:56 PM

I'm not sure I understand the title of your post.

You can't protect this hand from Flush Draws and/or Sets. - and you want everyone else in.

VNH by the way.

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

runa

12-03-2004, 01:20 PM

I like it all the way. nh

MagicRat

12-03-2004, 01:29 PM

I think you should bet out the Flop. With everyone just limping in and such a relatively lame (no high cards) flop, there's a good chance this could get checked all the way through and no one's going to put you on the nut straight on the flop. Why give flush draws a chance for nothing??

MaxPower

12-03-2004, 01:30 PM

You can't protect your hand and you shouldn't try to. T9 is the only had you would need to protect your hand from. Your only concern should be getting as much money as possible into the pot. If the boards pairs or the flush card comes you'll have to slow down.

When you have a straight, especialy one like this, your hand is very well hidden and you will usually get paid off like crazy. Don't wait until the turn to start jamming because no one will give you credit for the straight.

Rubeskies

12-03-2004, 01:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
3 words. TRI-FEC-TA

[/ QUOTE ]

It's becoming a lost art...

MisterKing

12-03-2004, 01:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3 words. TRI-FEC-TA

[/ QUOTE ]

It's becoming a lost art...

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I missing something here?

MagicRat

12-03-2004, 02:00 PM

Getting a check-raise in on every street... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

colgin

12-03-2004, 02:08 PM

I would bet out on the flop hoping to get raised so I can re-raise, but other than that I like the way you played this. You can't protect your hand here from the flush draws or full house draws so just pound the nuts while you have it.

I think you have to just bet the river here. While it would be great toget in the check-raise, you have already check-raised twice as well as capped the turn. Even against "slow learners" I think there is a risk of it getting checked through if you go for the trifecta.

Nice hand.

Colgin

MisterKing

12-03-2004, 02:37 PM

Ah, I see... it was tempting, but I gather the C/R just wasn't going to work on the river. The guy who folded clearly missed his flush, and UTG had slowed down from maniac w/JJ to calling station.

I'll have to see if I can get the trifecta in some other time... nice to know what that means. Thanks again for your input everyone.