flopped aces full vs bb

[captZEEbo1]

Check flop or bet? I figure if I bet, I'm getting a fold on almost every hand. By checking flop, I can get a bluff on the turn, or allow him to think any pocket pair, or pair on turn might be good.

#Game No : 1246103357
***** Hand History for Game 1246103357 *****
$1/$2 Hold'em - Wednesday, December 01, 14:46:44 EDT 2004
Table Sand storm (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: WSalleng ( $50 )
Seat 2: ErnieBilko ( $70.5 )
Seat 3: SlyMaSta ( $77 )
Seat 4: JustBetMe ( $52.75 )
Seat 5: captZEEbo ( $77 )
Seat 6: kizzle827 ( $28.5 )
Seat 7: ANDYRAE ( $28 )
Seat 8: dander999 ( $49 )
Seat 9: atnalta3 ( $49 )
Seat 10: clessiah282 ( $74.25 )
SlyMaSta posts small blind [$0.5].
JustBetMe posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to captZEEbo [ A/images/graemlins/heart.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ]
captZEEbo raises [$2].
>You have options at Table 11607 Table!.
kizzle827 folds.
ANDYRAE folds.
dander999 folds.
atnalta3 folds.
clessiah282 folds.
WSalleng folds.
ErnieBilko folds.
SlyMaSta folds.
JustBetMe calls [$1].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif ]
JustBetMe checks.
captZEEbo checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif ]
JustBetMe bets [$2].
captZEEbo calls [$2].
** Dealing River ** [ T/images/graemlins/spade.gif ]
JustBetMe bets [$2].
captZEEbo raises [$4].
JustBetMe calls [$2].
captZEEbo shows [ A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ] a full house, Aces full of eights.
>You have options at Table 11226 Table!.
JustBetMe doesn't show [ Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ] three of a kind, eights.
captZEEbo wins $15.75 from the main pot with a full house, Aces full of eights.

Had I bet the flop, I would've likely gotten a call on flop and a c/r on turn. So I essentially missed out on 5 bucks I think.

[captZEEbo1]

sorry, just realized this should be posted in Micro....

[zram21]

You should really consider using bison's hand convereter to post hands. It makes it much easier to read and follow the action and it will not show the results which will taint the responses you get back. Here is your hand "converted".

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (2.25 BB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (4.25 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB

[shummie]

I would probably raise on the turn. Villan's bet could mean he's got a 6, a pocket pair higher than 8, or now a flush draw. Or it could be a complete bluff. OR he could have been trying a check-raise on his trip 8's.

If all of the first 4 scenarios are equally likely, I say 2/4 to 3/4 of the time he's going to call your raise on this turn. Once in a while he will raise wrongly with his trip 8's. You're missing a bet here if he also calls the river.

Also, by just calling his bet here, you let him fold an unimproved flush draw on the river, and miss the turn bet you could have gotten.

- Jason

[shummie]

I skipped your post to see the converted one, so I missed your original question...

You flopped a FULL HOUSE (read: MONSTER). IMO, there is no choice here but to check this flop... especially against 1 opponent who is the BB.

The only hand that can beat you at this point is 88 (or some other runner-runner 4-of-a-kind)... and quads don't exist.

Your thinking at this point should be "it is very unlikely that my opponent has anything on this uncoordinated board. If I bet he will fold. If I check he might think I don't have at least one ace and may improve on the turn to a hand that absolutely will not be able to beat me."

The pot is small, you have very little change of losing this pot = slowplay = check on the flop. The turn is different. See my earlier post.

- Jason

[Richard Berg]

I disagree. Even at .5/1, everyone at the table knows that I will bet this shorthanded flop situation dark. Checking behind looks suspicious, especially on that board.

Also, the whole concept of expecting a $2 call when he wouldn't call for $1, in a small pot with no draws (yet), doesn't make any sense. Just frickin' bet.

[shummie]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, the whole concept of expecting a $2 call when he wouldn't call for $1, in a small pot with no draws (yet), doesn't make any sense. Just frickin' bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're only expecting a call if the player improves on the turn. Whether a player with crappy cards folds on the flop or the turn doesn't matter if he's drawing dead.

Also, it doesn't seem like there are any cards that your opponent could have which he would call on this flop and then fold on the turn unimproved. There are players who will call a flop bet with any two cards looking to get a pair on the turn, but this kind of behavior is thwarted here by the preflop raise and the A on the flop. Some players are dumb by looking to hit a pair on the turn, but those players are usually always scared of As too.

An exception may be a timid player who calls the .5BB with a pocket pair &gt;8s, then folds to a bet on the turn. But even if you get a player to call .5BB, then fold for the turn bet, you are losing the equity you would have made those times the player improved or bluffed on the turn. You get at least 1BB in these cases, sometimes more.

Maybe I'm losing something and wimping out here on the flop. But if there is ever a time to slow play this is it.

Just let me know if I'm overthinking here. I'm at work, and I'm bored.

- Jason

[shummie]

Rereading things, I'm seeing more of your point here.

You're saying that the players at the table know you "bluff" this pot often without an A. So someone might call with a pocket pair or high cards on the flop.

Then what happens on the turn? They call you down and call the river too hoping to catch you bluffing. If you would have checked the flop, the villan would know you had an A or 8 and would fold to a turn bet. So in this case, you are missing out on 2.5BB, not just .5BB by not betting the flop.

Interesting... but even if you are bluffing, what do they think you are bluffing with here? KQ at the worst. If they are observant enough to know how you might bet this flop, they also know that you aren't raising many hands that aren't pairs and don't have an A in them preflop. TT, JJ, QQ, and KK are scary holdings here too for someone who likely has crap.

Is there more that I'm missing. I say, barring any other reads, that I would slow play this on the flop most times...

- Jason

[sfer]

If you don't think the average low limit online player will happily call with Queen high you're nuts.