Bad Streak

[Mez]

Wanted some opinions from this forum regarding a pretty bad streak that I've hit online.

Some quick background on me - I started playing online in June 03. Started with $100 playing $.50/$1.00 fixed limit and $5 SNGs to build a BR. I've slowly turned that $100 into over $5,000 over the course of 15 months or so. I primarily play NL holdem SNGs and some cash NL recently. I've moved from the $5, $10, $30 (didn't have $20 SNGs at the time at Party) and I've been fairly regular at the $50's for the past 5 months or so and have dabbled in the $100's. I've read several books including Lee Jones, TJ, Sklansky (TPFAP etc) and some others. I lurk here frequently and post rarely when I'm not working.

So, with that said, I've recently hit a real snag lately. I've been losing at SNGs and its not even close, finishing 5th and 6th. Seems like every hand is meant to be cracked and opponents have caught rivers on me. I generally don't have a good feeling about winning races or having my hand hold up. I know this doesn't mean anything to the cards, but you need confidence to play IMO. This has happened once before and I lost 50% of my bankroll. I've lost about 15-20% this time and I'm determined to curb those losses.

So, I've stopped playing 100's and 50's. I'm playing the 30's now, but still not able to shake this funk. I took the past week off and tried to play again last night with poor results.

So a couple of questions - how many here have had similar streaks? What have you done to get out of this funk?

Strangely enough, this seems to happen when I read new poker books, that happen to anyone?

[captZEEbo1]

I had an ROI of +50% over 250 sngs...I did an sng marathon, and of about 90 sngs, I ended up LOSING money.

What's your current ROI at each level, and what was your peak at each level (with decent sample size). If the 30s are still too hard, maybe drop to the 20s, those aren't bad /images/graemlins/smile.gif

What seems to be your problem?

[jaydoggie]

similarly i ordinarily do hit a small losing streak after reading new literature. my main theory to explain this is that every individual has a personal style to make their way through a tournament. adding or changing a play maybe be more significant in other aspects of your game. even if the new play or idea is more correct, it might effect a later play that you make. also, i believe maybe you attempt to imply the new ideas or plays in too many situation, which may be correct to do at first to understand it how it works, and where it works more frequently?

those are just my thoughts. and ive had streaks where i lose upto 20 games without placing. ive also peeled 14 1sts off in a row. hope this helps, all streaks come to an end one way or the other.

[hurlyburly]

I change games and formats frequently when I hit a funk then stay where it's ripe until I get some confidence back. Try playing S/H tournys. Learning Stud/8 or Omaha/8 has a low cost and you can get that "beginner's luck" feeling again. Or quit SNGs entirely and only play MTTs until you make a final table.

Hold'em has way more variance than Stud and Omaha, so streaks don't really follow you into those games, and you still keep your game sharp.

I even changed sites from Party to Stars, which did more for my game than I ever thought possible.

Ruts are the same in poker as they are in real life and should be addressed the same way.

[Mez]

Capt- thanks for the response.

Unfortunately, I don't have poker tracker and I haven't calculated ITM and ROI. I was moving up at what I thought was very slow, but I'm not sure I have the sample sizes that some on this site recommend.

I didn't used to find the 30's hard at all previously. Just now they seem very loose and I'm not sure I'm playing them correctly.

"What seems to be your problem? "
If I knew, I'd correct it! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[NegativeEV]

Mez-

I've been playing for a much shorter period than you, but our paths have been similar. Like you, I was able to build a manageable BR online over a few months while enduring a couple of signficant downswings as I continued to develop my game. When I hit a rough period a couple of months ago I really started to question whether there were some fundamental flaws that I could address with my SnG game that would allow for less variance and a consistently increased ROI. I sent a PM to a 2+2 poster who's input I respected and valued and was able to arrange a "coaching" arrangement where that poster reviewed a series of my HH's. The input I received through that process was incredibly VALUABLE and really helped me to make a few minor adjustments that are critical to reducing variance and should help to increase total SnG ROI.

Long message, but I would suggest that you PM a poster or two that you respect and see if they would be willing to take on a project of reviewing a good set of your HH's. The process for reviewing HH's and giving feedback that my "coach" and I used was very smooth and I'd be happy to explain the process that we adhered to.

Good luck
-EV

[ThorGoT]

Could you explain (if it isn't private)?

[NegativeEV]

[ QUOTE ]
Could you explain (if it isn't private)?

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume you are looking for an explanation of the process my "coach" and I used for review/analysis of my game. I was avoiding posting this in my original response since it is a long-winded message that is probably only useful to a small audience, but the info is definately not private. Anyhow, here's the process we used:

1.) I inquired with a Poster whom I respect if they'd have time to work out a program to help me evaluate my game. I offered to compensate this "coach" by paying them 1/2 of my SnG net earnings for any month in which they provided me with advice. I will also be sending this coach 1/2 of net earnings for the month following any month in which I receive a significant amount of advice because it really takes time to implement the advice and I think this is more fair to the coach.

2.) At the start of the project, I sent my coach all of my historical SnG results as loaded into the AleoMagus/Jurello spreadsheet. I used yahoo briefcase to transfer this information as it is too large for email (just created an account and gave the coach the password) This allowed the coach to analyze historical results and provide feedback on likely issues/concerns from these results. This feedback was provided over email.

3.) I reviewed my recent HH's and selected 10 HH's for the coach to review. I chose a mix of SnG's that I thought I played well, games that I thought I played poorly, and I focused on SnG's with a good amount of bubble play and HU play.

4.) I copied these 10 HH's in to "Word" documents and emailed them to my coach. I included NO COMMENTARY in the HH's and DID NOT indicate what plays I thought were good and which were poor.

5.) My coach reviewed the 10 HH's and commented on all hands that I participated in as well as those that I folded pre-flop in situations he deemed worthy of mention. His comments were made in a <font color="red"> colored font </font> directly following the hand in the HH. Once he completed his comments, the HH's were emailed back to me and I sorted through the comments for the 10 SnGs. I then responded back to his comments using a <font color="green"> different colored font </font> and he responded one last time in yet another colored font. This allowed for a very meaningful discussion of critical hands within the context of an entire HH. It was even more meaningful given the context of 10 entire HH's. Through the process I realized that one or two HH's do not give an accurate picture of one's playing style and repetative errors, so 10 was a good sample size.

6.) I then took (actually am currently taking) a one-two month period to implement the suggestions my coach made and to sort through how best to apply his input into my game. I figure it will take ~ 200-400 SnG's to really implement the suggestions and be comfortable with adopting them.

7.) After completing 200-400 SnG's implementing new knowledge, I will send an additional round of HH's to my coach if I feel I need additional feedback or review. I would guess I'll choose only 3-5 HH's for this second round of review if necessary.


I know this is probably too detailed of a response/description of the process we used, but I find it useful to have a prescriptive recipe sometimes. I've played approximately ~100 SnG's since receiving advice/commentary on the original 10 HH's, and I'm just now beginning to fully implement the suggestions in a successful manner. I think making changes to your game (even relatively minor yet important changes) takes time and concentration, so it's important to give a good period to implement and see those changes take form. I'm a little thicker than most on these forums, so I'd guess 200-400 games (which I'll take) is a bit excessive for many /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

hope this helps
-EV

[Ogre]

I am currently in a little slump as well. My problem is that when I hit a bad streak the bad beats that I would normaly shake off start to irritate me. When I make some aggressive plays or bluffs in the later stages that don't work out I start to question my play. It makes me mad and really gives me no disire to play which makes playing through the slump even harder. When I'm running well I feel like I can't go wrong and in the slumps I feel like whatever I do I'm going to get screwed.

[stupidsucker]

I am in the slump of all slumps.

After reviewing all my games I see mistakes, but the luck/swing factor is the most important. To make myself feel better I moved down to the 10s from the 30s just to regain confidence and build my bankroll. I have pleanty of money to reload, but I will feel better about it not having to.

[texasrattlers]

So, what was some useful advice you learned from your coach?