A 10+1 loser......help !

[Allinlife]

1st 10 500 % Finished 1st 10%
2nd 12 360 % Finished 2nd 12%
3rd 13 260 % Finished 3rd 13%
4th 10 % Finished 4th 10%
5th 13 % Finished 5th 13%
6th 16 % Finished 6th 16%
7th 15 % Finished 7th 15%
8th 6 % Finished 8th 6%
9th 5 % Finished 9th 5%
10th 3 % Finished 10th 3%
TOTAL SNGS PLAYED: 103
Total tournament fees: $103.00
Total investment $1,133.00
Total profit -$13.00

Return on Investment: -1.1% ITM: 34%

after 103 SnG's I am not so sure if I am a long term winner in 10+1, I thought it was cold cards but I guess not, so here I am admitting my problems /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I think one of my main problem is not winning 1st enough... does this mean I should be more willing to do coinflips when stacks are pretty even ITM?

I also like to know what to do when pot lays you over 2:1 (getting reraised on a steal on level 5:bb 200) and you have a hand, most likely a coinflip if I call (say a J9 or QT). is this a easy call? or do you fear AQ/AK JJ+?
I've been calling pretty much everytime I've faced this decision, were they correct decisions?

here are some of hands from level 4~6, how did I do?

dang. can't get converter to work /images/graemlins/frown.gif nothing shows up except "final pot" text


playing super tight lv 1~3, usually end up with 600'ish stack by level 4, then basically, I've been pushing with hands like J6s~KJ from CO, CO+1 when I had <8bb. Should I attempt these pushes from UTG/UTG+1 because they will gain more respect or is it too much risk to be called down?

thanks for taking the time to read my post.

[ghostface]

Why play super tight lvl 1-3? The BB is only 1.5% of your stack to start. You can limp with a ton of suited connectors, suited aces, kings, small pairs, and high unsuited cards because the implied odds are enormous. By level 4 I usually have 1500 or more. It's tough to win at SnG's if you are relying on pushing in coinflip situations or situations where you will be a big dog if called. (J6s?)

I dont know if anyone agrees with me here, I play mostly limit but this is how I play SnG's and I have decent success in the ones I play in. When the blinds are small try to capitalize on bad players by hitting good hands with less than premium cards.

[Irieguy]

Refreshing, different post... somebody actually admitting to losing.

Sample size blah blah blah... you know that.

Still, after 100+ SNGs at that level you may see some trends that you can start working on. ITM%, more than any other measure, will dictate your success and give you the most readily apparent, swing-resistant metric. So don't worry about 1st place finishes yet. You need to get ITM more often.

You are calling way to much. Stop that and you will notice an increase in your ITM% pretty quickly (within 100-200 SNGs)

If you took perfect SNG strategy and removed from it all plays that are dependent on calling raises based on pot odds... you'd still have essentially perfect SNG strategy. Look through your HHs and see how frequently you play a SNG without calling a single bet until you are 3-handed. If your search reveals that N=0, you have a great place to start working.

Good luck, you are on the right track.

Irieguy

[Allinlife]

I limp PP's / suited connectors/ suited aces only up to level 2 in late position, so I guess it's not super tight

[Losing all]

Not enough 1st's is a problem, but your weak number of 2nd's and 3rd's looks like an even bigger problem to me.

14% 8-10th is high. So is 15% in 7th. The sample is very small so maybe it means bad luck. If it means anything though, it's that you're too loose, with a dash of not aggressive enough on the bubble.

[Allinlife]

thanks for the feedbacks, I'll try to lay those "correct in pot odd hands" and keep notes on how I get out 7th or less finishes from now on.


I'm playing right now and following hand came up

10 handed
2 limpers AK in CO raise to 100 both limpers call
around 330 in the pot
2 suit raggy flop, checked to me, I'm allin
I think it's a bit too risky of a move, but pot is pretty big and I probably have the best hand. what do you think?
p.s does anyone know how I can get bison's HH converter to work?

[zephyr]

I don't like your play at all. You're typically only going to be called by a better hand here. If you need to take a shot at it why not bet 1/2-2/3 of the pot?

Only my opinion,

Zephyr

[pshreck]

A key in beating the 10+1 is playing hands that will be straightforward throughout the betting rounds. This is especially true for multitabling, even if you aren't multi-ing now, you should be prepared to do so in the future as it is key to making long term money in SNGs (at lower levels).

Playing straightforward hands means you can basically limp PPs from any position in rounds 1-2. Some strategy changes in level 3 when UTG or EP with pps, sometimes folding 88 and under makes sense (because calling any reraise will be killer if you dont flop a set).

I only play suited connectors in from the CO or button, if there is atleast 1 limper. I will never play it from any other position.

I never play KJ, K10, K9, QJ, Q10, etc, suited or not (unless it falls under my suited connector rule). AJ again only under optimal circumstances.

Playing hands like AK, AQ, and all pps early is easy. AK, QQ and JJ are three hands that can be tricky because I raise with all 3 from any position, so when I am out of position and miss the flop, these are the few hands where I really have to concentrate on my play.

Otherwise, if you hit, you go with it, for all your chips if neccesary. With AQ, if the flop comes A or Q high, you should never find a reason to fold your hand (unless it is 7 handed and the board has paired on the flop... but that should be basic). If you dont flop a set with most PPs in a multi way pot, you can easily fold. If you do flop a set, you can figure out how to milk the pot to the best of your ability while be wary of draws.

I think the biggest flaw in your strategy is your stealing. Stealing should be done MUCH LESS in 10+1's, because of the inability of your opponents to fold hands like 10J and K2suited, etc. If you are in the 10bb range and pick up J7 suited in the CO, you should easily fold this. You push with hands like this in higher level SNGS, because higher skilled opponents do not like to call in coinflip situations. 10+1ers dont understand that is stupid to call for all their chips with Q10, and therefore stealing without a hand that you are willing to play for your tournament life is bad for the most part. Ask yourself how many times you have busted on a steal going bad?

Last but not least, and Irieguy touched on this, 100 SNGs isnt enough of a sample size to say anything. You should analyze your play during it to find weaknesses, but 100 sngs could be 40% off your longterm ROI numbers.

[Unarmed]

I'm done with Ax suited anywhere but the small blind. Fish are too scared of 3 flush boards to pay off the odd time you hit and I HATE playing when an ace flops because you'll get called down by middle pair exactly the same way you will by a better ace.

I may be in the minority.

[pindawg]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm done with Ax suited anywhere but the small blind. Fish are too scared of 3 flush boards to pay off the odd time you hit and I HATE playing when an ace flops because you'll get called down by middle pair exactly the same way you will by a better ace.

I may be in the minority.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate playing the Ax suited from SB or any early position because you don't know where you stand when an A hits on the flop. I'll limp in with these early from button or CO if I've already picked up a big pot or doubled up.

[pshreck]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm done with Ax suited anywhere but the small blind. Fish are too scared of 3 flush boards to pay off the odd time you hit and I HATE playing when an ace flops because you'll get called down by middle pair exactly the same way you will by a better ace.

I may be in the minority.

[/ QUOTE ]

If there are several limpers in front and you are in the CO or button, and are still folding Ax suited when its a small % of your stack, you are forfeiting big opportunities.

If you are so worried about an ace flopping... just fold to any bets if the ace comes... I dont see what is so complicated about it. Good players are able to often fold the top pair, and at the same time able to to call when it seems like the best hand. If you dont think you are good enough to tell the difference then just always fold it to any flop bet.

[Unarmed]

There's a 5% chance I nail a non runner-runner flush. I play stars, but assuming party stacks a call on level 1 is 2.5% of my stack. I don't see how I can extract enough money when I hit to make this EV+. Always willing to be shown the error of my ways though.

Thanks.

[skirtus]

If I had to venture a guess I would say you are bleeding too many chips early and forced to make more desperate plays as you are entering the middle stages of the SnG. Try and break the SnG into 3 stages. Early, Middle, Late. Post a few HH's from Levels 1-3. I think this would be a good place to start. This is the easiest area of the SnG to plug leaks. Once your play at this stage is rock solid you can look at the middle stage play.

[Irieguy]

I don't mind your all-in play, but there is a much better way to play AK early:

When you are in late position you want to raise the smallest amount possible to thin the field and give you betting impetus when you hold AK. You have good cards and good position, so you want to play poker here. Playing poker is easier when the pot is small. Raise a little more than twice the BB and you don't have to push on the flop if it comes rags.

Also keep in mind that when you play AK in the early stages of a SNG, you will fold with relative frequency at some point post-flop. The reason why your push isn't bad is because you made the pot look like a late-stage SNG pot. But that's a mistake.

Irieguy

[Allinlife]

keepin pots small with AK early in tournament, got it
does this advice go for JJ as well?

*thank you all for your piece of mind.

[Irieguy]

That advice would apply to most hands when you have position. The difference with Jacks is that I might want to play that hand for set value against multiple opponents early in a SNG... so if there's already limpers, I might play along. Mid-pair play depends a lot on your impression of the table. If it's a crazy table, then the implied odds may make that play better. If the table seems tight and shy early, I'd be more likely to play Jacks for a raise.

Irieguy