Two situations I would like some advice on. Where to back off?

[kendal14]

The hole in my game I am trying to close up is overplaying hands and post flop play with nutted pair which with only one over. For example:

Situation 1:
I am in CO or Button with AQo, AJo, AKo. 2 or 3 limpers. I raise, and one of the blinds completes or calls (I forgot to mention I play 2/4 and both blinds folding to one bet rarely happens... especially when the raise is from the CO or Button for some reaosn).

Flop:
I miss it completely. For example 973 rainbow (an alternate situation is 2 to a flush but not of a suit I hold... no redraw possibility). Everyone checks to me. I bet. Of the 4-5 people still in the pot, 1-3 call.

Turn:
I miss it again. Everyone checks to me. I.... ???

My guess here is that I check and fold unimproved.

Situation 2:
I am in MP3-Button position with 99/TT. 2-3 limpers. I raise. 1/2 of the Blinds fold. I am last to act from the flop on.

Flop:
Flop comes Q79. Maybe a backdoor flush draw. Everyone checks to me. I bet. 1-2 callers.

Turn:
Something like a 3 or a 5. Everyone checks. I bet?

Basically I get confused when I am last to act and while I have a good hand and PFR, but in situation 1 I missed the flop and turn completely. And situation 2, no one shows agression, but I still have at best MP. I seem to find (or I guess I remember more often) that the passives have that Q or K to have me beaten all the way.

Any comments would be helpful. I have taken two relatively bad nights in a row (down 20BB total over 1000 hands), where these siutations have happened several times.

[toby]

These are situations where it helps to have some sort of read.

Situation 1 - Check/fold unimproved, only bet the turn here with 1 or 2 opponents who are likely to fold. With more, its too probable that they are planning to call down with some pair. An exception is if these are people who like to call any flop bet to try to pick up a draw.

Situation 2 - Value bet all the way. Only check nehind if an A or K falls, or a likely draw is completed. Even then I would be tempted to bet--probably about a 50/50 chance of betting for me. Again, any sort of read is helpful in this situation

[JinX11]

Situation 1 - I think your line (flop: bet, turn: check, river: fold unimproved) is fine for missed hands like this. As I side-note, after 2-3 limpers, I would definitely raise AKo, usually raise AQo, and sometimes fold AJo. Neither AQo nor AJo play terribly well multi-way.

Situation 2: Usually, I would bet the turn here (especially if you have 99 and the board comes Q79, as in your example /images/graemlins/wink.gif). Assuming you have TT and Q79 board, with a turn bet and your position, this will often get you a free showdown, at least.

[ QUOTE ]
have taken two relatively bad nights in a row (down 20BB total over 1000 hands)

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Hmmmm....not even "relatively" bad. I lost about 95 BB over 1000 hands only a few days ago. Don't worry: it always comes back when you're playing g00t. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[kendal14]

Thank you for the reply. Yeah, reads make these situations easier. If we assume players are all LPP (but not maniacs).

If situation 2 were changed so that a K fell on the flop, do I check and call down to the river if no draws and no agression shown?

Also, what if situation 1 had a Q or K fall down on the flop. Do I check after it has been checked to me?

Thanks again for the response.

[MoreWineII]

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I am in MP3-Button position with 99/TT

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[ QUOTE ]
Flop comes Q79.

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Turn:
Something like a 3 or a 5. Everyone checks. I bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd bet middle set. /images/graemlins/wink.gif Not only that, I'd bet TT. If nobody is showing aggression, why make up any? Obviously, there are times to back off, but this probably isn't one of them. Reads help immensely.

Oh, in your first example, it's really situational. How likely do I think my opponents are to fold if I bet? Do I have any draws? Are my opponents apt to check-raise? All those and more are factors. But my default play is to check the turn behind with just overs and no draws against normal opponents.

[sfbruin]

Hand 1 is a situation I find myself in a lot too but I'm usually firing all the way to the river (if one opponent left on the river) unless there's a good chance someone hit their draws. With no one showing any aggression, I can't tell you the amount of times that the river bet has folded the last person left in the pot. Obviously, you are going to get called down sometimes with some mediocre hands that beat you but the amount of times that you rake in a decent sized pot in my opinion is worth it. I guess the point is, if you are going to bet the turn, you should fire away on the river for any chance to pick up the pot. Thoughts on this line?