how far do you chase a flush?

[DrI]

Whats the best way to play 3 suited from the go? Say the flush is the only hand you can make and if you make it your a winner.

You hit 4 to the flush on 4th street...do you chase this hand to the end? How many of your flush cards have to be dead to fold?

What if you hit a brick on 4th then make 4 to the flush on 5th street...how far do you take this hand?

I know there are many things to take into account, but some ideas on this would be great.

[grb137]

This answer is easy: it depends.

I recommend get yourself a copy of 7CSFAP. In it, you'll learn important considerations when playing flush draws, among them: cards that are out, the rank of your cards.

Standard answer is more than 2 burned suited cards make a flush draw too much of a long-shot to play. Now if you've got an Ace or a K or a SF draw, then that's another story...depending on what your opponents have.

[Nick_Foxx]

if factors look favorable, you are going the distance if you have a four-flush

the only reason you should fold prematurely is if too many of your suit are dead, or making the flush will not give you the winning hand (beware when people start jamming with a pair on board)

mike

[BeerMoney]

What he said.

[DrI]

Only 2 of your flush cards are dead? Wow. These hands have been killing me latley...maybe this is why.

[BeerMoney]

This is a good example to learn with...

Ok, so you say that 2 of your suit are gone, beyond the four in your hand. So, that means you've seen 6, and 7 are left... You need to get one more. Let's assume you've seen 14 cards. that means there are 38 cards left, 7 of which are yours31 are not... So, the odds against you hitting are 31:7, or about 4.5 to one. Your probability of hitting by the river are : 1-P(not hitting) = 1-[(31/38)*(30/37)*(29/36)] = .467.. Odds against hittinng by river = (1-.467)/.467 =1.14:1..

To answer your question, yes, you're sticking around!

[patrick dicaprio]

if i have a fourflush then teh dead cards will tell me what to do when i know what the pot size is. if the pot is 8 BB then with five cards out i am still calling if it is 1BB to me. so the answer is that when it is profitable to call i will regardless of the number of cards out.

pat

[timmer]

To correctly answer such a question, one needs to assess the profitability of playing such a hand against the field of opponents or opponent. Correctly quantifing the probabilitiy of making ones hand is just one step in this desision making process.

One major factor which lies along these same lines is properly assessing ones own secondary outs and the likelyhood that those outs will be good if they hit vs the likely field you may be facing. Part of this assessment is recognizing the key cards and estimating their avalibility. Also assessing the likelyhood of manipulating the field size towards optimizing ones own hand strength.

Besides quantifing the likelyhood of such a hands improvment, one additional major factor is assessing the opposition. Their skill and the strength of the field of their likely holdings should be given ample consideration. Also how these hands could likely be played by the opponents that you are or will likely be facing. Simply stated some opponents will pay off like ATMs others will make you pay the max to draw then fold when you get there. It behooves you to make an accurate determination here.

Inasmuch in extreme cases varing conditions could turn an easy raise with drawing hands such as these, into a fold.

This is just one of the multitude of examples that support the contention that stud can not be optimally played by engaging in mechanical strategems.

It depends is often the definitive answer.

play well and prosper

timmer

[BeerMoney]

Stop making an easy concept seem hard. It doesn't matter if I'm playing against Doyle Brunson or the world's biggest calling station. If I have the odds to chase, I'm chasing.. If my odds against are lower than the number of opponents, I'm value raising. Its that simple.

[Andy B]

Read 7CS4AP. I've posted a lot on this subject before, so feel free to look at some of my old posts. Let's just say that I rarely throw away four-flushes before the river, and I frequently jam with them.

[timmer]

Ah Ha , the I have Aces so I raise theorum !

/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

timmer

[BeerMoney]

Timmer, its nice that you're thinking on a higher level, and taking the time to share your thoughts, however, I still feel this is an easy question. In particular, since this poster seems like a novice, and needs a more clear cut answer for now.

[Overdrive]

[ QUOTE ]
Whats the best way to play 3 suited from the go? Say the flush is the only hand you can make and if you make it your a winner.

You hit 4 to the flush on 4th street...do you chase this hand to the end? How many of your flush cards have to be dead to fold?

What if you hit a brick on 4th then make 4 to the flush on 5th street...how far do you take this hand?

I know there are many things to take into account, but some ideas on this would be great.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are dealt three suited cards you are 4.5 - 1 against completing your flush.

If you still only have three suited cards on 4th street you are 8.5 - 1 against completing your flush.

But if you have 4 suited cards on 4th street you are 1.5 - 1 against completing your flush, just about even money.

If there are three of my flush cards out, I won't draw to a flush unless i have other draws also. If you are just going for a flush and not working on any other draws I would fold on 4th street if I didn't have at least 4 to the flush. Just compare the odds of not catching your 4th flush card on 4th street - if you catch it you are almost even money to make the flush, but if you don't catch your 4th flush card by fourth street you are almost 9-1 against making you flush.

[DrI]

[ QUOTE ]
Just compare the odds of not catching your 4th flush card on 4th street - if you catch it you are almost even money to make the flush, but if you don't catch your 4th flush card by fourth street you are almost 9-1 against making you flush.



[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you.

[timmer]

with A 4 flush you are generally wanting to see the river in most cases how to play the hand is where it can get dicey.

with a 3 flush on 4th you want the off card to add some significant power to your hand like an overcard add a redraw or pair a hole card ect.

Its also good to be against players you can manipulate with this 3 flush +1 hand.

the time to dump your 4 flush is against a higher flush more live flush or flush draw. or if your damn near positive you are against trips. (factor in dead cards)

Hold em players can tell you the power of the nut flush so keep an eye on that board for their high dead suited cards in the case of a flush over flush showdown. these can be both profitable if you get them right and costly if you get them wrong.

if two opponents pair their door cards and get busy, Ill sometimes fold a 4 flush.



timmer