10K checkup - a 1/2 6-maxer moves to 2/4 full ring

[MisterKing]

After 10K hands at 1/2 6-max and 5-max (Paradise), I made the move up to 2/4 full ring. Below are my stats after the first 10K hands at 2/4 -- interested in any thoughts/criticism/input you all might have. Also, I've noticed that my shorthanded game has gone to **** since I made the move up. Could be cold cards, but I suspect full ring has caused me to "lose the edge" in short games where marginal decisions are so much more important. D'oh.

Total Hands: 10,979
VP$IP: 17.27 (looks ok? A little high -- probably the result of playing at several shorthanded 2/4 tables)
VP$SB: 34.0
Folded SB to steal: 81.82 (normal)
Folded BB to steal: 53.23 (a shade low, but small sample)
Att. to Steal Blinds: 33.25
Won $ WSF: 34.41
BB/100: +5.13 (works for me!)
Went to SD: 29.35
Won $ @SD: 59.70 (am I folding at the river too much? This should be lower, no?)
Pre-flop Raise: 9.46 (symptomatic of a former 6-max player, methinks. Could handle having this drop to 8.5 or so...)
Folded to river bet: 59.13% (ok, I am DEFINITELY folding at the river too much... right?)

[mistrpug]

VP$IP is fine.

Won$@SD is way too high. You probably are folding too much on the river. Post some hands.

PFR is a little high, but I don't think that's a crime. Check out PT and see how you're doing with some of the weaker hands you're raising preflop.

[ScottTheFish]

Some people hate these kinds of posts, but whatever. (*Insert standard disclaimer about anything less than 10 billion hands is meaningless*)

VP$IP: 17.27 I don't think that's too high at all. You can be profitable in 2/4 with this number around 20 if you play well post flop, IMO.

your won $ at SD is probably a little high, probably folding some winners.

Won $ WSF: 34.41
BB/100: +5.13 (works for me!)
These are both very high, obviously. You've been running well over 10K hands., of course that's not to say you haven't been playing well, too.

In the long run your Won $ WSF will probably level off at 26 or 27%, with the associated drop in BB/100.

[MisterKing]

Thanks for your replies & advice, guys. I'll post some hands later on today when I have a few minutes.

[ QUOTE ]
Some people hate these kinds of posts, but whatever. (*Insert standard disclaimer about anything less than 10 billion hands is meaningless*)

[/ QUOTE ]

Bah - they don't have the read the post if they don't like the content. That's what the subject is for!! Look at the subject, dislike it, skip it... Anyhow, we make judgments about *other* players all the time on as little as 100 hands seen, and we make bets/calls based on that limited data. So even small sample sizes mean something, or are at least treated as such. I don't want to get too far into it, other than to say that a little self analysis & input from others every now and then never hurt anyone.

[ QUOTE ]
VP$IP: 17.27 I don't think that's too high at all. You can be profitable in 2/4 with this number around 20 if you play well post flop, IMO.

Won $ WSF: 34.41
BB/100: +5.13 (works for me!)
These are both very high, obviously. You've been running well over 10K hands., of course that's not to say you haven't been playing well, too.


In the long run your Won $ WSF will probably level off at 26 or 27%, with the associated drop in BB/100.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see what you're saying, and agree that the cards have been more kind than they've been unkind over this stretch. That said, wouldn't your Won $ WSF go down when your VP$IP goes up? Since my VP$IP is on the tighter side of things (esp. given the number of short tables I've played), I'm entering flops with bigger cards than those with VP$IPs closer to 20. That means I'm ahead more often, and probably winning money on more flops... thus the higher %.

To take my point to the theoretical extreme, imagine a player who entered pots only with AA, KK, and AKs. The VP$IP would be very low, but the Won $ WSF would be extremely high -- probably above 50%.

[VBM]

just stay outta 1/2, y'bully! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Evan]

[ QUOTE ]
Won$@SD is way too high

[/ QUOTE ]
I would agree, but I read a GoT post once where he said it should be like 65. I'll try to find a link if I can.

[tripdad]

Won $@ SD being high is not surprising to me given you are taking the game so far for 5.13BB/100 hands. expect both numbers to come down to more normal levels during the next several thousand hands, though $2/4 full ring is by far the easiest money going.

oh, and your VPIP is certainly not too high, nor is your preflop raise%, IMO. mine are both slightly higher after many more hands than you.

folded to river bet seems awefully high, though that could very well be open enders and flush draws not coming through with such a small sample size.

cheers!

[Lost Wages]

If he said that then he was wrong.

Lost Wages

[runa]

[ QUOTE ]
VP$IP: 17.27

[/ QUOTE ]

This is actually probably pretty accurate for ring games. I think if you were playing SH it would be closer to 20.

[ QUOTE ]
BB/100: +5.13 (works for me!)

[/ QUOTE ]
You dog! I knew you were running good but this is pretty damn hot. *applause* I'm a little over 3 and I thought I was running hot.

[ QUOTE ]
Folded to river bet: 59.13% (ok, I am DEFINITELY folding at the river too much... right?)

[/ QUOTE ]
Cmon, I've played with you before and I remember you folding QQ in a decent sized pot. And I can't let you forget this one too..
Mister King, tsk tsk (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=smallholdem&Number=1282494 &Forum=f3&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=128249 4&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=9640&daterange=1& newerval=1&newertype=m&olderval=&oldertype=&bodypr ev=#Post1282494)

Kick the WT out of the closet for me pls!

(then again your winrate owns so I'm not sure I should be giving you advice)

[MisterKing]

[ QUOTE ]
oh, and your VPIP is certainly not too high, nor is your preflop raise%, IMO. mine are both slightly higher after many more hands than you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the input, tripdad. Am I leaving money on the table with a VP$IP below 18? I've often wondered about this... as I do not play hands like JTo in almost any spot (save perhaps OTB with 2+ limpers and passive blinds). As for the PFR%, I'm glad to hear that 9+% isn't too much gambool. I just picked up SSH last week (had previously read TOP and HPFAP), and am looking to do a little more raising with some of the bigger drawing hands as recommended (JTs in LP, etc.), so this number may well go up.

[MisterKing]

Crap, I never should have told you who I was during that session, Runa. Now I'll never live the QQ hand down. Not that I should, as it was an atrocious fold. At any rate, as I mentioned above, I'm neck-deep in SSh for the first time right now, and am trying to take Miller/Sklansky's river recommendations to heart. Could the BB/100 go up as a result? Here's to hoping, against all realistic forces!

[tripdad]

JTo is trash and should not be added to your repertoire.

as for leaving $$ on the table. i don't think so. i'm around 19% VPIP, but then my win rate is not above 5/100, either. /images/graemlins/grin.gif. my PFR % is only about 1/2% or so above yours, so there probably isn't much you can do there, either. maybe if you make some extra value raises in LP with mid suited connectors such as 78s, and little pairs when there are 5 limpers or more ahead of you, which happens at least a few times a night for me.

it looks to me like you have a pretty solid handle on the game. it's actually quite difficult for me to give up playing the $2/4 full ring because of the enormous income, but i want to get better and feel i can't do that at that level. it's always been there for me when i needed it, though, if i've lost a bunch at higher limits, etc...

i assume you are working your way to the $5/10 SH game, right? there is no better place to build your roll up than what you are doing now, although the $3/6 SH game at Pokerroom is awefully full of goldfish.

cheers!

[JinX11]

[ QUOTE ]
(ok, I am DEFINITELY folding at the river too much... right?)

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not track this??? Maintain a tally of "Good Folds on River" vs. "Bad Folds on River" (assumes a hand is shown down, so sometimes you'll never know where you fall). Maybe throw in a "Good River Checks" and "Bad River Checks" column, too, to see if you are missing some river bets. Track it over time and try to improve.

[runa]

You are already really solid, but I think SSH will help sharpen your game nonetheless. Especially when it comes to calling down in big pots! j/k, ok I'll lay off you a bit on the folding thing...maybe...probably not. Eh. Its true, you deserve it.

Keep up the good work. (you play goot)