QQ just in the money short stacked.

[zaxx19]

blinds 300-600 with a 25 ante(8-9 handed) I have 4200
I was 14th out of 18 (payout from 10-20 identical) in a UB 5 buck tourney caught QQ in MP 3 HUGE oft raising stacks to play. Now I have been making standard raises ever so often and just getting by but for like 3 orbits card dead after getting reraised while raising on the button with K9s. My table image is TAG as I have played several pot aggressively on the flop and taken them down. But again i was card dead for a few orbits. I limped(first mistake I guess) Im only looking to double here blinds and antes arent gonna really help my EV imho. I am lookin for a raise as its been popped apprx 50% of the time from the mamouth stacks for like 5 orbits now. In my mind if it doesnt Im getting all in on any flop anyway im just ready to bust or double up. Nowone even calls. Perhaps a limping small stack is fairly obvious...iunno. sb calls with huge stack. Flop comes AK8 2 clubs SB bets out minimum(this is consisitent with the last dozen hands he has played) BB folds. I move in. (My reasoning is he would pop with any ace with decent kicker anyway preflop) He calls immediately with 107 clubs...rivers a club. My question is did I play this optimally given Im not really helped much from blinds and antes here?? Should i just push?? Im really mixed up with how too play premiums i these spots while having a tight table image..just cant seem to find a way to both not get busted and get some money in the pot.

OK lets just cut too the chase is it ALWAYS a straight push with QQ with less than 10BB left. It seems like alot of posts deal with QQ and maybe this is the best way too play this tricky hand.

[37offsuit]

Lets figure that you are 8 handed. There is 900 in blinds plus 200 in antes which represents a stack increase of around 20% if you only steal here. It's a push each time, every time, imo.

You have a tight image. Your limp is going to get you less action than a push will. A push may seem like a small pair move this late and one of the big stacks might decide their KTo represents two likely overcards. A limp with your stack at this stage of the game with your image can only mean big pair looking for action, or that's how I would have taken it. Same with a minimum raise here.

If the other stacks are deep enough, maybe someone would feel like doing the dirty work trying to take another player out. Even if you just win the blinds and antes, that gives you a full round paid for to try to find another hand to double up with.

[zaxx19]

Fundamentally I agree with yu here. Especially in a live tourney. The problem is there ARE horrible players in these low buyins online. Ive seen alot of people call for like 1/7th theuir stack then reluctantly fold to a huge reraise. Given that...I think you see where I am going with this. Also im giving odds to a stack too play hands here bc i want 1 or 2 callers or raisers. Given the price a huge stack might stiull call looking for 2 pair or a draw at the right price.

[tiger7210]

When a small stack limps in, unless I know he is a horrible player, I will normally throw away most hands like KJ,AJ,AT, etc. To me its a major alarm that they want some action on a big pair so they can double up. Pushing here will disguise your hand better and get you called by some weaker holdings thinking you may have a smaller pair or even Axs.

At this stage in the tournament there is nothing wrong with making a 20% increase in your stack even if nobody calls you.

[kalooki45]

I think it's all-in preflop for a steal, OR see that flop and fold...

[zaxx19]

The allin part I agree with the fold Im not crazy about. Remember This is a huge stack who fires a bet at every flop. He DIDNT RAISE PREFLOP SO I DONT BELIEVE HE HAS A8 OR BETTER. If you add folding equity to backdoor flush and straight draws and...set draw....Im moving in.

[kuro]

You did fine. Your read was that someone would try to steal and you'd raise all-in or that a big stack would play and call your all-in on the flop with next to nothing in an attempt to bust you out. You got what you wanted and then took a bad beat.

You ended up with something like a 61% chance to bring your stack to 2.5x what you started with and significantly improve your odds of advancing further in the money. That's pretty fantastic when you think about it.

[zaxx19]

Kuro you are my new best friend thanx for making me feel smart again lol. Seriously though I understand how conspicuous the limp appears but I'm still gonna get popped by a10 aj aq ak 99 1010 jj and probably 88 77. No way in my mind does some dude with 5x me look down at 10 10 and say too himself well that tight dude limped so i am mucking. Evidence here is that the SB called with total crap anyway even though i limped...where does yur guys expectations account for that??

[37offsuit]

300 to call with 1500 in the pot gives him odds to call.

[schwza]

not pushing there is really bad. general wisdom is to push-or-fold when less than 10 bb's, and you have a big hand that does best all-in pre-flop. picking up the blinds and antes would be terrific for your stack right now - this is not the time to get cute.

[kuro]

Does it really give pot odds to call with anything from the small blinds? I have such a hard time playing absolute trash hands that I usually fold them in the small blinds because unless I hit a perfect flop I'm stuck folding them to about any raise or I get myself in trouble being overly aggressive. I just never know where I stand.

I think people calling with trash that late probably has more to do with thinking they've got to play bully because they've got a big stack and figuring you can't really hurt them.

[zaxx19]

How is picking up blinds and antes "terrific"?? Im still under the magical "10BB" so according to you guys im still pushing with anything 88 or better or AJ or better mode. I am still to the right of huge stacks who arent gonna be letting me steal blinds and I am still at a chip postion were I am most probably gonna be making the minimum prize money(i finished in 15th). REMEMBER GUYS 10TH-20TH PAYOUTS ARE IDENTICAL HERE!!!

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
How is picking up blinds and antes "terrific"??

[/ QUOTE ]

cause you'll have ~1100 more chips without risking a flop. that's increasing your stack by more than 25%.
[ QUOTE ]

Im still under the magical "10BB" so according to you guys im still pushing with anything 88 or better or AJ or better mode. I am still to the right of huge stacks who arent gonna be letting me steal blinds

[/ QUOTE ]

ok, then when you push with 88 and get called by QT (or, if you're lucky, push with AQ and get called by QT) and are fortunate enough to win, you'll double 4200+1100 instead of something smaller.

but the biggest reason to push QQ is that you'll get called by a lot of worse hands b/c you are short.

[ QUOTE ]
REMEMBER GUYS 10TH-20TH PAYOUTS ARE IDENTICAL HERE!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

all the more reason to push now. if there were (for some reason) a big jump in payouts from 15th to 16th, then i might possibly see a reason to play as you did (except for the part about getting all your chips in on an AKx board). but actually i'd say to push anyway.

[zaxx19]

DUDE IF THEY HAD A OR K GOOD KICKER THEY POP B4 THE FLOP!!!! THATS THE WHOLE POINT. And again those extra 1100 isnt gonna do squat man if I am gonna take a top 5 in this tourney I have to get alot of chips here. The risk is minimal bc the payout isnt gonna jump for awhile. I am basically taking on alot more risk for alot more reward something i believe was warranted by the situation.

[steeser]

This is an easy push.

Your logic that somebody will raise with an A or K is wrong. A lot of people will limp after a limper with Axs, or even Axo.

Once you limped, you have to fold to that flop.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
Im only looking to double here blinds and antes arent gonna really help my EV imho

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I am still to the right of huge stacks who arent gonna be letting me steal blinds

[/ QUOTE ]

i think by far the most likely way to double up on this hand is to push and get called by a hand like AJ.