PP SnG 4-handed

[jonoo]

alright i dont know the exact chip stacks but i think i can get the point across. and sorry if this sucks its the first hand i posted.


Button $2200
SB $3500
Hero $1900
UTG $ 400

blinds are at 100-200 and going up next hand

i was really short stacked and have pushed about 3 of the last 5 hands and stole the blinds. i pick up JJ in the BB. the short stack folds the button calls and so does the SB. i make 1000 to go and the button immediatly pushes and the SB folds. what do i do now? And was the raise too big, not enough, or too small? will post results soon. thanks

[Gramps]

The raise to 1,000 does you no good. You have to think about what it does here. You don't want to see a flop with this hand, if an opponent flat calls you and any overcard comes (will happen 1/2 the time with no trips), you'll have no idea where you stand and have a tough time going to war with the super-short stack's presence on the bubble (and end up folding the best hand a lot).

Plus, the other players (especially the SB) can make a play at you over the top with all sorts of worse hands - knowing that you see the 400 short stack about to be in the BB the next hand for another 200.

Push it preflop. You'll probably pick up 600 chips for free, and the few times you do get called, you'll often be a big favorite to double up + overlay. I'm certainly not putting the button/SB on a big pair (will happen once in a while, but of the times they have, they'll often raise it PF).

In general, where there's a short stack like this, it's a bad play to "give the illusion of fold equity" with hands like JJ. Really, it's tough to lay it down here, but someone with a bigger stack and a good-not-great hand may come over the top of you, knowing that even though the times they're called they're an underdog, the times you fold and they pick up a bunch of free chips makes it a profitable play for them. Make them call off all of the chips involved in this hand to play it (IMO).

NL tournies involve taking some bubble risks, so long as the reward justifies it (which it does here), then make the play.

[Biff M.]

I agree with Gramps. Don't give him/anyone the chance to put the pressure back on you. Put your chips in the middle and sit back.

[jonoo]

thanks, after i made that raise i knew it was stupid, but i ended up folding there and coming in second. the guy later said he had Q5.

[Gramps]

Looking at it from the other player's side, you can see the effectiveness of it (the playback here by the bigger stack with the presence of the super-short stack). Good to have in the arsenal to be applied at the appropriate time...

...I wouldn't have done it as the button with Q5 (he's barely got you covered, and he will get called by a player in your spot a good % of the time), but as the SB, I think it would have been a great play, since losing means you still have the short-stack way outchipped, and you're tied for 2nd if you lose.

[ColdestCall]

I agree that the raise to 1K does you no good, but there is another option here instead of pushing. You've already paid your blind, and gotten JJ. As far as I can tell, you now have a free shot to spike a jack on the flop, or have an overpair on the flop, at which point you are in a good position to risk your chips. If an overcard (or two) comes on the flop, and someone bets aggressively at it, let them have it and watch the short stack go all in next hand. You have such a good shot at getting ITM here very soon that there is no reason to risk getting them all-in pre-flop, IMO.

[Vee Quiva]

Does anyone else think this was a bad fold? Hero has to call 900 more to win 2500 (I think that's right). That's 3 to 1 odds your getting on that call. I think you have to take that edge even with the small stack out there and you being on the bubble. After all the blinds are going up and you are also going to be forced to put some money in in 2 or 3 more hands.

[UMTerp]

All my money would've been in before that Q even hit. I would've check-raised the flop for one, and if called, led out all-in on the turn. You can't slowplay in SNGs - you just don't have enough chips. As it turned out in this case, he probably saved himself some chips, but he also may have been able to take down the pot uncontested on the flop.

[ColdestCall]

Good question which exposes one of the problems with the raise of 1K to begin with. It is difficult to imagine the button limping with AA, KK, or QQ here, although I suppose it is possible. So if you want to risk getting them all-in here as a favorite, go ahead and push with substantial FE. If you are unwilling to get them all-in here becuase the short stack is going to have an excellent chance of blowing out next hand, putting you into the money, then you have to just check (I discussed this possibility in another post, and it is probably what I would do) If you raise and get played back at you are going to throw you're hand away anyway and you've burned up a bunch of chips in the process. This leaves you in a terrible position to win the tournament, and substantially increases your chances of finishing out of the money if shorty gets lucky and doubles up next hand. Seeing as how Hero raised 1k, though, I think the call of the additional 900 to win 2500 is mandatory as you are likely to be at least a 57% favorite, and probably a substantially larger favorite, and you are getting 3 to 1.

[stillnotking]

There's an overwhelming chance you have the best hand before the flop. Putting all your chips in with the best hand is rarely the wrong play. Checking to see the flop gives 2 other players a free shot at drawing out on you (or picking up a big draw and deciding to gamble). Giving them a free flop is a bad idea.

I would push in this case, but once you have made that 1000 raise you should call the button's reraise. His push screams "I'm making a play because I know you don't want to bust out ahead of the short stack."