Heads-up against a 2+2er, what do we have?

[btspider]

2+2 table (not a lag-fest hand). Opponent is a solid 2+2'er who isn't getting out of line PF to "change things up".

What do we have (and why)? especially given the turn/river action.

Party Poker 2+2 table Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with X X.
<font color="666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP1 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (11.75 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 11.75 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 11.75 BB, between MP1 and Hero.</font>

[Brunger]

You have pocket 9's and he has KK or AA with a spade.

[kyro]

i'm thinking you have 99 and he has either 88 or 66.

upon further review, if you had 99, i think you bet this river all day every day. so now i think differently. would you 3bet PF with 44?

[MrFeelNothin]

You have AK with the Aspades, I am having a harder time figuring out his line, but maybe 77.

[Harv72b]

He has AKo, one of them a spade. You have AKo, the other one a spade.

[btspider]

I won't say what we have yet and give you guys some more chances to guess..

No one missed an obvious value bet on the river, so straights, flushes, and sets are out. I'd obviously bet all of those, and he wasn't trying to check-raise any of them on the river. He checked the river, b/c he thought I would fold worse hands, and he was right. I knew what he had when he 3-bet me on the turn.

[LaggyLou]

He has TT, with no spades. You have A/images/graemlins/spade.gifK/images/graemlins/club.gif.

[k000k]

[ QUOTE ]
i'm thinking you have 99 and he has either 88 or 66.

upon further review, if you had 99, i think you bet this river all day every day. so now i think differently. would you 3bet PF with 44?

[/ QUOTE ]

You'd bet 99 with a possible flush on the board and MP 3betting you out of position? I can see 99 checking this down... But he DID say straights, flushes, and sets are out, so my official guess is overpair vs overpair, possibly with spades with each of you being afraid of all the draws on the board. TT/images/graemlins/spade.gif and JJ/images/graemlins/spade.gif for example. Overpairs with draws on the turn would play like that, and overpairs with MISSED draws and a scary-ass board would do that on the river.

Had you not said that straights were out, I mighta put you on 99 and very scared of getting flushed with that turn 3bet..

[k000k]

[ QUOTE ]
He has TT, with no spades. You have A/images/graemlins/spade.gifK/images/graemlins/club.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont think the bt would raise the turn with overcards and a flush draw, that would be -EV... He has 13 outs then, assuming the A's and K's are clean, which I wouldn't.. With 46 cards left in the deck, betting even $$ is -EV.

[btspider]

bingo.

*************** RESULTS ******************
i had TT/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Villian had JJ/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
*************** RESULTS ******************

my thoughts during the hand:

PF: TT looks too good to lay down. 3-bet. this was borderline against him in MP1. A fold wouldn't be bad. If he was EP, I fold. If he was MP3, easy raise.

Flop: Bet of course. Unexpected check-raise. Perhaps an overpair. I called since I thought I had borderline odds to peel one off and didn't want to encourage him to get tricky by bailing so quickly. I thought a 3-bet would be met by a cap or call down fairly often and just cost me more.

Turn: Very interesting turn card. I now have 6 solid outs (T's and 9's). I can discount my spade outs in half since he'll have a higher one if he has one. 10.5 outs, I semi-bluff and try to fold JJ/QQ without spades. My line looks like I smooth-called the flop to raise on the big street. He would be capable of laying down non-spade Jacks here. Q's may call down.. but maybe not. When he 3-bets, I figure him for an overpair with a spade. I call for my 6 outs intending to check-fold the river.

River: he put me on A/images/graemlins/spade.gifK and gave me a chance to bluff at the pot.

Comments on our play given our hands would still be appreciated.

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He has TT, with no spades. You have A/images/graemlins/spade.gifK/images/graemlins/club.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont think the bt would raise the turn with overcards and a flush draw, that would be -EV... He has 13 outs then, assuming the A's and K's are clean, which I wouldn't.. With 46 cards left in the deck, betting even $$ is -EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd probably semi-bluff A/images/graemlins/spade.gifK as well. its really no different than T/images/graemlins/spade.gifT since neither will be winning a showdown unimproved in my mind. Villian is capable of smooth calling PF with AA, but JJ/QQ still seem more likely. My semi-bluff entirely relies on him believing I smooth-called the flop with a better hand or hit a flush on the turn. I really wasn't expecting a 3-bet from J/images/graemlins/spade.gifJ.. so I wasn't expecting it to be that expensive.

[Brunger]

I misread the post at first I thought that you were the original raiser and got three-bet. Interesting hand and he made a fantastic three-bet with the jacks. Would you bet if checked to on a river spade.

[k000k]

[ QUOTE ]

*************** RESULTS ******************
i had TT/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Villian had JJ/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
*************** RESULTS ******************


[/ QUOTE ]
WOOHOO what do I win?! That hand got your adrenaline going eh, Without you saying 'no sets or better', that'd be an impossible hand to read, there's SOOOO many things out there.. Weak straights, strong straights, flushes beating straights.. Sets waiting to fill and beat flushes and straights.. That hand could be all over the place. I thought even the TT/JJ was a stretch, but it was the shortest longshot I could think of, and you made me think for a long time on that one.. You need big brass ones to make that 3bet, and to call it.. Valiantly play by both.

[btspider]

well I thought the river action made it clear that no one had a big hand.. but maybe not. I tried to hint that sets won't be out there since we were not getting out of line PF.. so I need to have TT+ and he probably has 99+.. maybe 88.

He did make a great turn 3-bet reading me for a semi-bluff. I'm not sure if this means he was thinking on a higher level than me or if I was thinking on too high a level when I hoped he would read me for a purposely slowplayed/semibluff with an even higher pair + spade. Either way, its getting deep into "He thinks that I think that he thinks..". /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Shillx]

I was MP1 and here was my thinking on this hand. When he 3-bets me preflop, I assume that I am taking the worst of it. I was playing so tight that his 3-bet almost surely was AA/KK in my mind. If he 3-bets the flop, I check/fold the turn. Once he just calls, I am confident that I have him beat for now.

Once he raises the turn, I know he could be doing this with lots of hands (now I'm wondering if he is getting tricky with AA). I know that he knows that I like to semi-bluff or full on bluff in these spots (with something like A /images/graemlins/heart.gif Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif), and I figure he is attemping to stop a river bluff with A /images/graemlins/spade.gif K (in case I have AK or AQ or worse). Since I had a real hand, I made him pay for making this play (by 3-betting). I knew he would call the 3-bet because I knew he had a /images/graemlins/spade.gif, and I knew he would fold to the river. If I was in fact bluffing on the turn, I would have stop and go'ed him on the river. Since he was stopping a river bluff with his raise, he almost surely would have folded his TT to my bluff.

Very interesting hand.

Brad