I thought I played this perfectly

[Mr. Amanti]

but afterwards I question my play

Party 5/10 6 max

hero is UTG+1 with A /images/graemlins/heart.gif 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

UTG limped in hero calls SB calls and BB checks

flop is: 3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif


BB checks, UTG bets, hero raises, SB folds, BB calls two cold and UTG calls

Turn: 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

BB checks, UTG bets, hero calls ( with nut flush going for overcall with the intention of raising the river) and BB calls

river: 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif


BB checks, UTG bets, hero raises, BB cold calls and UTG calls final pot 14 big bets

would anyone have raised immediately on the turn? I fell it would define my hant too much and maybe pushed out a possible straight draw, and the river might improve my opponants to a good second best hand

that said I may have gotten more out of my opponants

thanks for your time

[helpmeout]

Raise preflop

call the flop and turn (you you want to keep customers with a draw not get HU vs Top Pair)

raise the river

[Mr. Amanti]

interesting, but I'm not quite sure I like you suggested PF raise, I dont see the positive equity there, and i want a multi way pop, but anyways the hands my opponants had were very interesting

UTG floped the 6 high straight with 46o and the BB turned the J high flush and never raised so seeing that I questioned waiting to raise

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
( with nut flush going for overcall with the intention of raising the river)

[/ QUOTE ]

raise the turn because 1. you don't know if UTG will bet into you on the river, giving you a chance to raise, and 2. your 2 opponents will call a turn raise with more hands than they'll call a river raise (such as a draw, even though they are drawing dead).

i could maybe see smooth calling the turn with 2+ opponents left to act behind you, but with just 1 i don't see the point of collecting overcalls.

[helpmeout]

1 weak UTG limper, you have position and A high which is very good heads up.

The blinds have random trash, your hand is much better than theirs, you can now win unimproved.

If they come along anyway you still have an equity edge.

oops didnt see you were UTG+1 in that case I fold

[joker122]

not raising this flop is pretty weak poker.

[fearme]

why not?? u can get excess action from another made flush, + maybe the guy u want to overcall has a k /images/graemlins/heart.gif, but maybe the way u played it got the most money

[Mr. Amanti]

re-read the post i did raise the flop, but helpmeout told me to raise preflop which i responded saying i didn't agree with that play

but i totally agree not raising the flop would be weak if i had played as such

[joker122]

i was responding to helpmeout's statement:
"call the flop and turn (you you want to keep customers with a draw not get HU vs Top Pair)"

[Mr. Amanti]

oh, sorry nevermind

and one other reason for just calling the turn was that i suspected that teh BB was on a flush draw as well, and may have checked with the intent of raising when it hit on the turn, therefore i could go for the 3 bet that would make it only one more to both opponants

but maybe i'm reading too much into this and the BB was just incredibly passive

[helpmeout]

Whats weak about calling with a flush draw? I want customers when I have a drawing hand. This is a small pot you have a nutflush draw.

I'd rather get paid off more when I hit than get beat by A5 when I miss.

I disagree with the turn raise as well, why do you want to scare everyone when you can collect a turn bet and a river bet. The guy betting is acting before you so if he doesnt bet the river you can.

[Mr. Amanti]

you raise this flop every single time because you have a slight equity edge over the other people in the hand with two over cards, a flush draw and a gut shot straight draw

it is imperative to push these slight edges, and here you want to build the pot anyways

there is nothing to gain by just calling and keeping the pot small on this flop

[fsuplayer]

<-----------even Scout knows to raise this flop.

[naphand]

[ QUOTE ]
a slight equity edge

[/ QUOTE ]

you call this slight? you have 3 opponents, the flush draw alone is enough to jam this pot.

[DrGutshot]

[ QUOTE ]
<-----------even Scout knows to raise this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

He looks like a smart dog.

-DrG

[The Bear]

[ QUOTE ]
<-----------even Scout knows to raise this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think this is nearly as clear-cut as everyone seems to think. Keep in mind that the pot is very small.

[The Bear]

[ QUOTE ]
you raise this flop every single time because you have a slight equity edge over the other people in the hand with two over cards, a flush draw and a gut shot straight draw

it is imperative to push these slight edges, and here you want to build the pot anyways

there is nothing to gain by just calling and keeping the pot small on this flop

[/ QUOTE ]

You have a very large equity edge against the likely hands of the other 3 players here. But if you raise, many of those hands will fold correctly. I don't necessarily support calling on this flop, since I haven't spent that much time thinking about it, but it sure doesn't look like an auto-raise.

[esspo]

[ QUOTE ]
You have a very large equity edge against the likely hands of the other 3 players here. But if you raise, many of those hands will fold correctly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Assuming the statement above is correct hero's choices are to: A) call, giving up the chance to push an equity edge (bad) in order to give his opponents a chance to make a small mistake (little bit good) or B) raise, pushing an equity edge (good) and giving his opponents a chance to make a big mistake (Grrrrrreat!).

To sum up:

Call = Bad + little big good.
Raise = Good + Grrrrrrreat!

I agree that there are times, especially in small pots, when it is +EV to not force an opponent out of a pot. But I think those situations come up when your opponent is chasing with bottom/middle pair and you want to show weakness to induce calls on the expensive streets. Here it would be a huge bonus if hero could get BB to fold bottom pair on the flop as UTG could also be on a draw.

As an aside, I also vote for a raise on the turn. You want to give your opponents a chance to call two cold on the turn with something like a pair and a flush draw, two pair or even a 4 whereas those hands won't call two bets on the river and might not even call one. There is nothing wrong with charging people double when they are drawing dead. Besides, after BB calls two cold on the flop its possible BB might 3 bet. Add to all this that players tend to go too far with their hands in a short handed game and I think its a clear turn raise. I think its pretty lucky that BB and UTG both paid off a river raise.

[bblock99]

I have played quite a few 1/2 6-max hands and i say that you should raise the turn. It's unlikely that the BB is going to fold his straight or flush draw even to two bets, and what if a fourth heart comes on the river? Chances are that UTG will not bet into you, and he might even check/fold or fold to a raise which means you missed a bet.
As far as raising preflop...i would raise it from better position (depending on limpers), i like the limp especially with the UTG limper.
Just remember this...Pop Him!