Bruce Lee

[Reef]

1) Who is the greatest fighter of all time? (Only answer if different choice than Bruce Lee) Also, what is your reasoning

2) Say he (Bruce Lee) came to our time while he was in his prime. How would he do if he entered the Ultimate Fighting Championships now?

3) If you picked someone other than Bruce Lee in number 1, how long would that fighter take to beat Bruce Lee?

[ThaSaltCracka]

1. Ali
2. good
3. who knows.

[jakethebake]

Who did Bruce Lee beat again? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[M2d]

Jet Li
probably ok, but he'd have to get past some roided out freaks
probably a good fight

[Reef]

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Who did Bruce Lee beat again? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

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(taken from a blog elsewhere)

One of the first challengers was a master chosen by the Chinese community to represent them Wong Jack Man. He challenged Bruce and demanded rules such as no hitting in the face, no kicking in the groin, some light sparring. Bruce said bullshit, no holds barred. According to witnesses and Linda herself and Wongs people, Wong started running away after about three minutes until Bruce caught him and beat a submission out of him. Another fight was with a Karateka who insisted that karate was not from China and proceeded to whip his ass in lessl then thirty seconds. Bruce was a student at the time in Seattle. Stirling Silliphant has numerous stories of Bruce. Most notable was the story of two stuntmen assigned to work with Bruce. Two big caucasians. Apparently, they saw Bruce's diminuitive size and started poking fun and making sarcastic remarks. Finally, Silliphant suggested that he demonstrate a few of his skills. "hold this shield and I'll give it a little kick", said
Bruce. Without any run up or any thing he kicked guy so hard he flew backward into a pool. The second guy wasn't convinced so he held the shield and squatted down and braced himself good and he got the same treatment. The list goes on and on. Witness after witness. Bob Wall, Linda Lee, Dan, Chuck Norris, Mike Stone, Joe Lewis, Fred Weintraub, Wally Jay,numerous outsiders. In China during his filming he was challened everyday especially during the filming of Enter the Dragon. Again the witnesses abound. Guys like Lo Wei, Robert Shaw, Raymond Chow, Andre Morgan, Bob Baker, Peter Chin, Jim Kelly, even John Saxon... all witnesses. One of my favorites is Jhoon Rhee, whom Bruce sparred with on occasion. Jhoon had nothing but the utmost respect for Bruce's skill as a fighter. And then there was Thailand during the filming of The Big Boss in Pak Chong. Challenges everyday from kickboxers.

[jakethebake]

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At the martial arts convention where he introduced Jeet Kune Do, didn't he challenge to beat any man in the building in under 2 minutes? He then faced the guy who the Kung Fu council had chosen to represent them, since Bruce had to fight for the right to share their secrets. He beat him in under 2 mins.

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Oh yea. I saw that movie too. Who was that guy? Where was that? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Reef]

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1. Ali


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given no holds barred fighting, Ali wouldn't get in a single blow

[Men the Master]

If Bruce Lee were alive today, I would kick his ass.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
If Bruce Lee were alive today, I would kick his ass.

[/ QUOTE ] Ya think? He'd only be 64.

[Reef]

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If Bruce Lee were alive today, I would kick his ass.

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Um.. no. I would put big money that a 50 year old Bruce could probably beat down about 99.999% of the average 20 something year olds alive. That % is even higher for 2+2ers

[hoyaboy1]

That Wong Jack Man story may be bogus - there are alternate versions, which say it was a draw at best for Bruce.

If he came into UFC, or Pride (which is much better) without doing modern training, he'd get smoked. If he took some time with new training methods, who knows. I'm sure he'd be very good.

[Reef]

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Jet Li


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I'd give Jet Li at most 3 minutes before being beat down

[Men the Master]

His Jeet Kune Do wouldn't stand a chance against my Cheat Kune Do. Russ Gorgiev taught it to me during one of his Zyzzx visits.

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That % is even higher for 2+2ers

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But 2+2ers run very fast!

[onegymrat]

If he took some time with new training methods, who knows.
That's a very good point. Lee's style of fighting was a combination of what he had learned and what he developed. Who knows how much better and innovative he COULD have been if he had lived to today.

[SomethingClever]

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If he came into UFC, or Pride (which is much better) without doing modern training, he'd get smoked. If he took some time with new training methods, who knows. I'm sure he'd be very good.

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Are the UFC matches in a cage? I think if Lee had a wide open area to work with, he could take any of these suckers out.

[hoyaboy1]

UFC is in a pseudo-cage, Pride is in a ring.

[jakethebake]

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Jet Li


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I'd give Jet Li at most 3 minutes before being beat down

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I think you're being generous.

[Blarg]

Bruce also engaged in challenge matches in Hong Kong. The senior fighter in the Wing Chun style at the time under the grandmaster, Yip Man, was Wong Shung Leung, who was Bruce's mentor. Wong, a tiny man, was a sensation in Hong Kong, never losing in over a 100 no holds barred fights, some including multiple opponents, and involving weapons. Wong was Bruce's mentor and accompanied him on challenge matches. Wong says that Bruce had many of these local challenge matches, which were quite serious and allegedly sometimes resulted in a loser being thrown off the roofs where the fights were often conducted. The seriousness of these fights were the reason Bruce's parents sent him out of the country in the first place. Despite Bruce's very young age at the time and relative inexperience, some of these matches were even with kung fu instructors. He won them.

That's why he could come to the United States so cocky even at age 18. Eventually he wound up meeting many martial artists. Jhoon Rhee said there was no way he would get in the ring with him, not with the way he punched. "The air popped when he punched!" He isn't talking about the swoosh you get from a forearm swinging. Ed Parker, father of American Kempo, said, "Bruce has the biggest mouth in the world, and can back up absolutely every single thing he says."

His fitness regime was fanatical, and his students and others who both liked and disliked Bruce say his concentration was neither on fully learning any particular style, nor on tournament competition, but purely on fighting. That he was a movie star was one thing; but he came from being an astounding martial artist, not the other way around.

Here are some excerpts from an article with one of Bruce's first students in America relating to some of these topics, taken from http://www.forumco.com/pauljbax/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2488&SearchTerms=demile

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Danny[Inosanto, one of Bruce's later students] had seen Bruce Spar with Joe[Lewis] and Chuck Norris and said he would neutralize everything they tried. His ability to close, trap and shut down any attack was amazing. I did not doubt this since I had had personal experience with his skills. Bruce was a street fighter, and they were tournament players. There is a definite difference between the two. I have always been more than happy to explain the differences to those who think that winning trophies and smashing heads is the same thing.

PB: In another interview, you once said Lee "could have beaten anyone regardless of size and strength." With martial artists reaching new levels in training, do you think Lee would have the same superiority over today's fighters as he did back when you knew him?

JD: Yes. The reason is what he did and how he did it. Today’s fighter is bigger and stronger, yet really does much of the same thing when fighting. It is difficult to explain in writing, but easy when doing it in person. A large part of the problem in communicating Bruce’s skills is that most people do not understand what a street fight is. It is not a tournament, not UFC or K1 or the Sabaki challenge. It is Neanderthal. It is no quarter and the only goal is to really hurt or kill the opponent. It is stupid and mindless, yet happens everyday. Bruce had two levels of action: two seconds or less or play. Meaning the fight was over in a blink or he played cat and mouse because he had no respect for the person’s skills. I do not care how strong you are, what rank you are, what style you are, if you cannot see it coming you cannot stop it. If, at the other end of that invisible movement was the floating punch, then it was over before it began.

PB: Robert Yeung, a Wing Chun instructor, once provided you with insight into the art. Tell us about Mr. Yeung. Did he provide insight into Lee's art of Wing Chun that Lee possibly neglected to share?

JD: Robert Yeung was a Wing Chun purist. He lived and breathed Wing Chun. He was the first one in line to defend the honor of Wing Chun. He came to visit me, where I was teaching in Honolulu, to find out who this guy was that said he was teaching wing Chun. He really came to challenge me. He watched my class and approached me afterward and asked me what I was teaching. I said "Wing Chun". Without a smile he said "No your not". Surprised, I asked why not. He said, "You are using the terms of Wing Chun, but not doing the techniques correctly. I found this an interesting statement since I had never known anyone but Bruce to practice Wing Chun. He told me he had trained in Yip Man's school in Hong Kong. At this point I think Robert became aware that I meant no disrespect, but was just ignorant as to what Wing Chun was. We sat down and I explained my training with Bruce and his use of the terms in our training. Robert explained that Bruce's Wing Chun training was limited since he only trained for three years. Although very skilled in general applications he felt Bruce lacked insight into the true art of Wing Chun. Bruce was not really interested in Wing Chun; he was only interested in fighting. Robert felt this is why Bruce did things so different. He was very focused and only gleaned out the techniques and concepts that he felt had value for him. Bruce's later teaching in America reflected this thought, since Bruce always related to fighting when evaluating a technique or concept. He would teach a technique for a month a suddenly drop it in favor of something else. Robert felt Bruce deserved a lot of credit for his creative insight to the art of fighting, however, Robert was only interested in the art of Wing Chun and assumed that Bruce used Wing Chun as a springboard or starting point for his own discoveries.

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[Blarg]

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That Wong Jack Man story may be bogus - there are alternate versions, which say it was a draw at best for Bruce.

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The alternate versions come from Wong Jack Man's students. If you like outrageous claims, ask them for stories of how Wong Jack Man puts out candles with his chi from across the room.

Wong Jack Man did not come in on his own. He was chosen by the Chinese community as a representative, and came with an entourage. There were plenty of witnesses. Their gripe was that Bruce was teaching non-Chinese. They didn't alert him or speak with him, but challenged him on the spot in front of his students and hiw wife.

The stakes were whether Bruce would close his school or not. They demanded rules and limitations. Bruce accepted the fight but refused any rules.

Bruce's school stayed open.

[Blarg]

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'd give Jet Li at most 3 minutes before being beat down


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Jet Li is undoubtedly a great athlete but he came to fame as a forms specialist. His concentration has never been on fighting. It has always been on the presentation of the martial arts. I think a better match would be Gene Kelly and Jet Li. And I have great respect for both of them.

[nicky g]

Agreed. Jet Li is not a fighter, he's an acrobat.

[Duke]

Bruce Lee is 10 feet tall and shoots fire from his arse.

Bruce Lee wore a live rattlesnake as a condom.

Seriously, though, Bruce Lee was a bad motherfucker. It's tough to decide how much the stories have been inflated, though, since his passing.

I do have a video clip of him kicking a guy twice, and the first kick is lost between frames. That speaks to how fast he was. And he'd need a lot of speed to do any damage at all, seeing how he was just a little guy.

Jet Li is a far better acrobat. Jackie Chan is a more ballsy stuntman. Chow Yun Fat is the only guy who would stand a chance against Bruce, though, since he's great with multiple guns at the same time. Attacking from a distance is the only way to deal with Bruce.

Maybe run him over with a tank, or something.

People (if they existed, or that exist) I would be less afraid of than an angry Bruce Lee:
Hannibal Lecter, Darth Vader, Jason Voorheis, Mike Myers, Freddy Krueger, Chucky, IT, Predator, Alien, Rocky Balboa, King Kong, Darken Rahl, Moghedien, Gregor Clegane (last three for fantasy fans), The Dread Pirate Roberts, Bill Brasky, The Witch-King of Agmar, Muhammad Ali, Royce Gracie, and Gus Hansen (he eats babies, right?).

~D

[Topflight]

What is the best movie that demonstrates Bruce's skill. I remember getting bored in whichever one I rented a long time ago.

Is there a decent documentary out there with clips of him fighting and demonstrating techniques.