Questions after flopping an ace-high flush

[Grendel]

Hello, all. I've been lurking here for a while, waiting until I had something intelligent to say to post my first message. Instead, though, I've decided to post something that makes me look like an idiot. I think I'll learn more this way. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'm playing $3/$6 with a bunch of calling stations. Over 50% of the players see the flop, and often go too far with their hands. I have A2 clubs on the button, and limp in.

Five players see the flop, which is the 5, 7, 8 of clubs. SB bets, one player (we'll call him MP) calls, and I'm last to act. I raise, and they both call.

The turn is the 7 of diamonds. It's checked to me, I bet, SB calls, and MP raises (a check-raise).

QUESTION #1: What do you do here?

Let's say hypothetically that I called. SB also calls, and the river is the 4 of spades. SB comes out betting, and MP raises.

QUESTION #2: What do you do here?

QUESTION #3 (for extra credit): What are the worst answers to #1 and #2?

-Grendel

[Evan]

1- Raise
2- Raise
3- Fold & Fold

EDIT: Wow, totally misread the action. Make #2 call. I'd still raise in #1 and folding still sucks.

[7ontheline]

I would definitely raise #1. It would be interesting to see what happened then - I would probably cap a 3-bet, although maybe you could call it and plan to raise the turn. Do you have any read on this guy other than calling station? Is he an aggressive calling station or passive?

Since you called #2, I guess you need to call again. . .especially because now you're against 2 players who are willing to bet out with the board paired. If you had raised earlier though, you might have a better idea what to do.

[Grendel]

EDIT: Wow, totally misread the action. Make #2 call. I'd still raise in #1 and folding still sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, folding really sucks. We won't mention what I actually did. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

I think you're right that raising the turn is the best idea, although I was concerned both that MP had a full house because of the monster checkraise, and that SB would fold to two big bets, hence the call. Looking at it now, though, the range of possible hands that would beat me was pretty small (55, 77, 88, or something junky like 87) and would have warranted a raise from MP on the flop, and the SB was probably drawing to something (with the K /images/graemlins/club.gif or a 6, maybe), and would probably call anyway.

Had I raised the turn, my action on the river would probably be clearer, too. But assuming a call on the turn, I think you're right again that calling on the river would be best.

I think I know the answer to this one already, but would anyone in his/her right mind ever fold this hand?

-Grendel

[HajiShirazu]

No. Never fold. 3-bet every time.

[Grendel]

[ QUOTE ]
I would definitely raise #1. It would be interesting to see what happened then - I would probably cap a 3-bet, although maybe you could call it and plan to raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just wanted to clarify- This is the turn after a checkraise, so I could 3-bet it myself, or plan to call here and raise the river.

In line with my last reply, though, I think raising the turn is a better idea than calling and raising the river. Like you said, more information from MP that way, and if SB is on a draw, s/he's more likely to call the turn than the river.

[ QUOTE ]
Do you have any read on this guy other than calling station? Is he an aggressive calling station or passive?

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately, I don't, because it was Pacific Poker, which has no note-taking functions, no hand histories, you can only play one table, and is slower than snot. It does, however, have some of the loosest and juciest players in the universe, so I was playing there in the "background" while I concentrated on playing a table at another site. I just knew these players to be generally bad, and a checkraise on the turn seemed to always indicate that the turn card helped them.

-Grendel

[uw_madtown]

It is very possible that these guys are getting out of line with trip sevens (MP) and a straight (SB). Raise the turn, call this down on the river.