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View Full Version : Am I being too tight near the bubble?


Hauser_III
11-30-2004, 03:26 PM
For background, I normally play 7-stud and 7 stud hi-lo single table tourneys, but I've been studying hold em and playing a bunch of single table, 3-table and multi's at Party over the last several months. I've won quite a few of the SNG's and three-tables, and placed in the money in several of the multi's (highest finish is one 3rd, at the only final table I've made), and I'm fairly certain that I've been playing tight aggressive at most points, and loosening up selectively when it gets short-handed. My question is that I think I'm playing incredibly weak passive when it gets close to the bubble, most particularly in the large multi's. Here's a summary of two hands from a multi I played yesterday to illustrate:

Hand 1: About 170 left (top 130 pay), BB at 800, I have about 9600 chips (average is about 7000) and limped UTG with AK suited, trying to set up a play---either PF or on the flop---against a LP caller or small raiser. Perhaps the limp was my first mistake. Everbody folds to the button, who calls, and the BB, without much thought, raises all-in with a stack that barely has me covered and is about 2x of the button's stack. I have no reads on either player, having just been moved to the table about ten hands prior. The BB's all-in smelled to me like a steal attempt, but I've got no folding equity at that point, and didn't feel like risking my entire stack even though I might be in a dominating position against a weaker A, or be in virtual coin flip against a pocket pair under KK (I just can't imagine that anybody with AA or KK would have made that big of an overbet PF). Plus, I also had to consider that the button was still in the hand. So, after thinking about it, I folded. Too weak, or correct decision?

Hand 2: This is the one that really bugs me. Down to 132, I get QQ on the button with about 4500 chips. Table chip leader, with about 22,000, is in the BB, and BB is 1500. If I push, BB will call, as she's been aggressive with her chips and certainly could be thinking that I'm just in a position steal. I think I should have pushed, but I was two out of the money, didn't feel like playing for 3+ hours for nothing, and folded. Weak tight, and too influenced by having gone all in with an AA while twelve out of the money in a similar situation the day before, only to be called by the chip leader in the BB with a 10 6 and lose to two pair on the river, or correct decision so close to the money? All comments welcome.

gcoutu
11-30-2004, 03:39 PM
Hand 1. You have nothing in it, but you are likely to be ahead or at worst a coin flip. Folding is not a bad play IMO. Calling also is not a bad play.

Hand 2. Push and double up. You aren't going far with that stack anyway so you might as well make something happen. The first few places don't pay much anyway so get where you can make some real money. You may not see QQ again.

I think you are playing a little too weak, but if just making the money is your concern then that is different. In both cases you can get a lot of chips and be in a spot to make some good money. You limped with AKs looking for action then folded when it came. You didn't want to push with QQ when you have 3x the BB?

aceragclubs
11-30-2004, 03:53 PM
I think you have to push in both situations. Sounds like the BB smelled weakness in the first hand. I think you're ahead and if not, it's a coin flip. I think you have to try to double up. I personally don't mind your limp UTG, if you intend to re-raise a raise all in. PUSH PUSH PUSH the second hand. She will call with anything, giving you a good shot at 9000 in chips, where you would be one double-up away from possibly going deep into the tournament. I understand you were close to the money...but I was playing in this tournament too and I think 130th paid $34 or something like that. Give yourself the best chance to get into the real money.

steeser
11-30-2004, 04:09 PM
Folding hand # 2 might be one of the worst plays I have ever seen in my life.

In hand 1, it's a little closer, but you limped to set something up, and now you folded because you have no folding equity? If they make a sizable raise instead of all-in, they will likely be pot committed anyway, so call call call.

These two plays are way too weak. Being aggressive gets the money in these tourney's. Sure, you have to get lucky, but c'mon, those are premium hands.

Hauser_III
11-30-2004, 04:16 PM
On the first hand, my plan was to re-raise all-in to any PF raise; the problem is that the raise came from the only person at the table that could set me all in, as everybody else had, at most, 2/3 of my stack at that point.

On the second hand, I know I should push. I knew it then, and I still couldn't stop myself from hitting the fold button. I wound my way down to 74th, but that one's just been eating at me. The results of the AA all-in from the day before just paralyzed me---and I know I can't think like that, because the play was correct; it's just the results that were bad.

Firefly
11-30-2004, 04:50 PM
I like you're fold on #1. If it was a smaller stack putting you all in, I surely hope you were calling /images/graemlins/cool.gif. The BB made a nice bullying play, next time get aces and do the same /images/graemlins/smile.gif. Risking an above average stack, with about 40 to go, isn't a move that you should take, if you know that you can outplay the table.

#2 is an auto push. Don't be gun shy. We've all had our big pairs cracked with some suited junk short of the bubble. Just Know that 99% of the time you'll be getting you're money in with the best of it, and in a tournament that's all you can hope for.

TheDrone
11-30-2004, 05:09 PM
Steeser's reply was right on the money, so I will try to take a different angle rather than regurgitate what he wrote.

Your mindset for playing MTTs is way off. Example 1:
[ QUOTE ]
I think I should have pushed, but I was two out of the money, didn't feel like playing for 3+ hours for nothing, and folded.

[/ QUOTE ]
Whether you had been playing for 3 hours or 3 minutes should not have any influence on the decision in front of you. The time spent is a sunk cost. You should be making decisions based on $EV.

Example 2:
[ QUOTE ]
...too influenced by having gone all in with an AA...

[/ QUOTE ]
You most certainly were. Dwelling on bad beats is not productive, but allowing them to influence you in to making clearly incorrect decisions is much worse.

You might have had some short-term success, but don't expect to be a long-term winning player unless you can fix these fundamental problems.