Insane Game... Should I play?

[se2schul]

There is a group of guys at a pool hall that I frequent that play $20 NL tournaments. They invited me to play one time. They said that they play "all-in" poker. Well, they weren't kidding. It is the MOST insane game I have ever seen. 70% payout to first and 30% payout to second.

There are 10 people at the table.
Hand 1: 4 people go all-in.
Hand 2: 2 people go all-in.
Hand 3: 3 people go all-in.

By hand 4, there are only 4 of us remaining and I haven't played a hand or posted a blind yet. 3 hands later the tournament was over. I ended up getting 2nd place. I couldn't help but feel that it is more luck than skill on this type of table.

They will play 10 of these tournaments in a couple of hours.
Before I play with them again, is this the type of game that a solid card player would be profitable? They surely are horrible players, but is it more of a "bingo game" than a poker game?

Thanks,
Steve

[UMTerp]

[ QUOTE ]
There are 10 people at the table.
Hand 1: 4 people go all-in.
Hand 2: 2 people go all-in.
Hand 3: 3 people go all-in.

By hand 4, there are only 4 of us remaining and I haven't played a hand or posted a blind yet. 3 hands later the tournament was over. I ended up getting 2nd place. I couldn't help but feel that it is more luck than skill on this type of table.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ummm... it sounds like you can get near second place almost every single time just by folding. If it's really as crazy as you make it sounds, I wouldn't play anything except AA-QQ until there are 3 or 4 players left. Though once you fold your way to second place a handful of times, I'd imagine some of them could start to hold a grudge. Of course that game is profitable, though "skill" had little to do with it. Unless you consider folding your first 10 hands a "skill".

[Irieguy]

What's the blind structure? How fast do they move the limits up? Unless the blind structure is absurd, this would be a pretty simple tournament to beat. Propper NLHE strategy adjusted for this type of game should give you at least a 100% ROI. If you can play 10 of these a night, you should average $200 a night.

Just because they go all-in every hand does not mean it is just a bingo game. It just means that you will end up heads-up with a huge chip deficit often. That's OK, since they pay 30% for second. If you have 10% of the chips heads-up, you have the same a priori chance of winning the tournament as you did when it started. If your opponent's plan is to go all-in every hand, then you will win more than 10% of the time because you can choose which hands to race with. In fact, if you can just fold into 2nd place 90% of the time, which you can if the games go as you say... your ROI will be closer to 150%.

Sounds good to me.

Irieguy

[pshreck]

If you don't understand why games like this are the most profitable, then I am unsure if you can actually beat them.

But yes, if you understand them, they are easily the most profitable games to play.

[se2schul]

The blinds are also insane. You start with 10 BB and the blinds double whenever someone is eliminated. If 2 people are eliminated at once, they double twice.

You can blind out without even playing a hand in the first or second orbit /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Steve

[eastbay]

If you don't know to mention the blind structure along with the rest of this information, then the answer might unfortunatley be "no."

Otherwise, with something other than about 1/4 stack blinds, it sounds like the softest game in the hemisphere. Just fold your way into the money, for chrissake.

But it sounds to me like the kind of game where you will get chided for "being a pussy" unless you go all-in all the time like the rest of the idiots. In which case, it's probably a waste of time, because they won't let you play for long.

eastbay

[Irieguy]

Then they are playing appropriately.

Irieguy

[pshreck]

I play in a game just about exactly like this every few weeks, with my girlfriend's older brothers. I dont have spreadsheets or recorded info, but I would venture that my ROI is well over 100%. Top 2 pay out of 7-9 guys, and I would say I make the top 2 75% of the time. I start out with 15 BBs and they go up by 1 everytime someone is eliminated. The bubble has to be about the easiest thing I have ever had to do in poker. Meaning, fold. They dont slowplay period, so if the flop comes, I pair, and it is checked to me, I can go all in and know I am ahead, despite the fact that I will get called by 3 card straights and 3 flushes (which is good for me).

You dont take advantage of this situation by always folding... you take advantage by knowing exactly where you are in every hand, because the bad players play everything directly. And of course your understanding of the bubble will be the thing that gets you the most money.

I reccomend playing this game no matter what the blind structure is. Even if it is close to a crapshoot, you will always have an edge if you play correctly.

[se2schul]

Quite frankly, I'm pretty new to poker. I know the importance of position and blinds, and I understand a fair bit of the theory. I also realize that I have a lot to learn.

I've never played in a game like that before, and I only was able to play in the first game of the night before having to leave without getting a real feel for how well I'd do.

I think I'll join their game next week /images/graemlins/smile.gif

steve

[The once and future king]

[ QUOTE ]
I couldn't help but feel that it is more luck than skill on this type of table.


[/ QUOTE ]

Not going all in every hand is skill and finding a game as super soft as this is very lucky.

[willie24]

with blinds this high, many players will probably play incorrectly, so yes you should be able to beat this game by a decent margin. plus, if you can get good at this type of game, it will help your overall game tremendously.

the key here is to be very tight/aggressive preflop. avoid seeing flops. you should almost always be allin or allout before the flop. level 1 you have to have a good double-up hand to play. by level 2 you should probably be willing to gamble for the blinds with marginally good hands. always, you want as few opponents and as much dead money as possible in any hand you play. (read: it's much better to raise first than to call or reraise)

[willie]

[ QUOTE ]
plus, if you can get good at this type of game, it will help your overall game tremendously.



[/ QUOTE ]


i'm not too sure about this

sure the game is beatable and is definitely worth playing, but helping your overall poker game- i don't see it.

unless you're talking about increasing your ability at the speed tournaments or something

[willie24]

anything that forces you to think about the relationships between blind sizes relative to stack sizes and optimum aggressive strategy (both preflop and postflop), in terms of pot odds and implied pot odds, is good for your overall game.