PDA

View Full Version : Ty Willingham out as ND coach


Clarkmeister
11-30-2004, 02:50 PM
3 years seems awful quick to me for a guy trying to do what needed to be done at ND.

ThaSaltCracka
11-30-2004, 02:57 PM
wtf, why don't those idiots at ND realize they need to lower their admissions standards so the dumb football players will sign with them. WTF fire TY too, [censored] idiots!

ArchAngel71857
11-30-2004, 02:59 PM
[ QUOTE ]
3 years seems awful quick to me for a guy trying to do what needed to be done at ND.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because Notre Dame hates black people.

There I said it.

-AA

Number4
11-30-2004, 03:06 PM
I bet Urban Meyer is next.

ThaSaltCracka
11-30-2004, 03:10 PM
I bet they try to hire the Pope, because ND needs a miracle to win another championship any time soon.

banditbdl
11-30-2004, 03:15 PM
I lost $20 bucks on this. Made a bet last fall that Ty would be around for the start of the 2005 season. I guess I underestimated the power of Notre Dame's delusions of a return to former grandeur.

Sundevils21
11-30-2004, 03:19 PM
I was shocked. Especially because ND never fires a football coach.

CCass
11-30-2004, 03:19 PM
Who are they gonna get that will do any better? ND's days as a national powerhouse are over.

Victor
11-30-2004, 03:25 PM
he should have gotten at least as much time as davie. he is a much better coach.

B Dids
11-30-2004, 03:36 PM
Yeah, this is highly dumb. What's he supposed to do without players?

If UW is smart- they'll hire him in a quick second.

Sundevils21
11-30-2004, 03:46 PM
[ QUOTE ]
If UW is smart- they'll hire him in a quick second.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which they proved they weren't when they fired Rick Nuehisel(spelled horribly) for doing something he was told in a memo was okay.

mmbt0ne
11-30-2004, 04:15 PM
I will greatfully accept a tuition hike if we can get rid of Chan Gailey for Ty Willingham.

hoyaboy1
11-30-2004, 04:19 PM
Willingham was no better than Davie and things were going downhill quick.

Meyer has an out in his contract allowing him to go to 3 schools, 1 of which is ND, and they didn't want to lose the chance to sign him.

PhatTBoll
11-30-2004, 04:37 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Because Notre Dame hates black people.


[/ QUOTE ]

Did you post this just to piss me off?

PhatTBoll
11-30-2004, 04:49 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, this is highly dumb. What's he supposed to do without players?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that's a big part of the problem. The coach recruits the players. The past couple years Willingham underperformed in that area. The recent deterioration of the offensive line was just disgraceful. ND used to always have one of the best O-lines in college football. Seeing a talented young QB like Quinn get massacred every week is infuriating.

Also, the recent spate of blowouts really hurt Ty. If you watched the USC game, it wasn't just a case of USC being better, or having a good performance. USC was in a class above ND, and that's unacceptable.

That said, I would have liked to see him get another year to turn it around. But I'm not surprised at all by the firing.

Mano
11-30-2004, 04:54 PM
Well, being a Utah fan this is not good news. Do you all think Meyer is the no-brainer replacement? I was hoping that they would give Willingham another year and Meyer would wait it out at Utah, but not looking too good.

J.R.
11-30-2004, 07:30 PM
They fired ty so as to not lose meyer to florida, its a simple as that. Meyer has a clause in his Utah contract allowing him to opt out for ND, coached there from 1996-2000 and as almost hired last time around. Ty didn't have to go, but Kevin White couldn't risk losing Urban. It deflects the criticism of him as AD to hire a coach the boosters and alumni want.

It also didn't help Ty lost 5 games by 30 or more points (totally getting outclassed) and lost the games he was supposed to win (purdue, BYU). The students were so fed up they aranged for the rally to protest their football team this afternoon.

ND needs passing offense to be able to get kids to want to come to ND, which already has enough recruiting problems given their academic standards and religious affiliation. No top prep kid with pro aspirations who plays a "skilled" offensive position would go play for Ty.

Boris
11-30-2004, 07:47 PM
[ QUOTE ]
ND needs passing offense to be able to get kids to want to come to ND, which already has enough recruiting problems given their academic standards and religious affiliation. No top prep kid with pro aspirations who plays a "skilled" offensive position would go play for Ty.

[/ QUOTE ]

My understanding was that Willingham is a west coast guy. I don't see why a skill position player would not want to play in a west coast offense. Also the few times I watched ND it seemed like they were pretty aggressive with deep passing routes.

It seems pretty obvious that Kevin White caved in to the boosters and didn't give Willingham the same fair shake (5 years) that every other ND coach has received. Pretty gutless if you ask me. Urban Meyer was a big part of the loser Davie years and has one good season coaching a team that is not exactly playing the top competition in cfb. Urban Meyer is a media darling but he is not a proven football coach.

J.R.
11-30-2004, 07:57 PM
Yes, he ran a "west coast offense", a term that is loosely thrown around. Many teams run "west coast offenses", but regardless of what label you put on it, Ty's teams weren't predicated on big passing numbers. IMO Ty wasn't gonna get the big offense recruits anytime soon, and didn't.

But this wasn't so much about Ty being bad (although there wasn't much love for him amongst ND supporters, and although he was mediocre in his 5 years at stanford ND made him (I beleive) the 3rd highest paid college football coach when they hired him), but about losing out on Urban. Was White gonna tie his fate up in an unpopular coach, or fire ty and try to bring in the media darling with a histroy at ND and broad support amongst the boosters and alumni. White's the guy who signed Davie to a 5 year contract and then fired him shortly thereafter, hired george O'Leary and then passed over Urban last time for Ty, and ND supporters haven't forget it.

Urban has won, but he hasn't won with his recruits at BGSU or Utah. He is on record dicussing how difficult it is to recruit at ND with academics and religion, so the onus is on him when/if he gets hired.

DontRaisePlz
11-30-2004, 08:13 PM
Not inferring anything about his dismissal, but the fact that you guys think Notre Dame didn't have players intrigues me.

They are chock-full of All-Americans at every position, INCLUDING skill positions. I would bet that 4 out of 5 of their starting line were at least top-20, if not top-10 ranked as high school seniors. Just to name a few off the top of my head; Quinn, Stovall, Walker, Sullivan, Goolsby, and Abiamiri.

It is for this reason that I thought Ty didn't deserve any coaching awards in his debut season.

I hate ND as much as anyone, but all they need is a coach. SC was a huge underachiever before Carroll and OU was almost dead before Stoops.

J.R.
11-30-2004, 08:24 PM
The last time a Notre Dame skill player was drafted in the first round before julius jones was 1993, Mirer and Bettis. While this was prior to Ty, its indicative of the ND problem.

They have players, but not heisman top players, not 1st round pick type talent, and they don't have depth at the skill positions. Line isn't a "skill" position, although its of utmost importance, and their line played horribly this year.

Quin, walker, mcknight, and the TE are all good, quality college football players, but in the context of ND being a national title contender, do they compare to names like leinhart and bush; white and peterson; cambell, williams and brown. Its one thing to have some skill, its another to be like a texas and be a recruiting machine (yes, mack brown is a bad coach). ND has high aspirations, they didn't bring in Ty and pay him all that money to win 7 games a year.

DontRaisePlz
11-30-2004, 08:30 PM
Lack of development and nutured talent can be attributed to coaching.

You CANNOT lose to Pittsburgh, BYU, and BC with such an advantage in All-Americans! No, they don't have a Reggie Bush, but neither do Virginia Tech, Iowa, or Boise State, and all of those teams could obliterate Pitt, BC, and BYU.

Notre Dame doesn't need to recruit. Like Michigan and SC, they are a storied program that people just want to attend. Don't shortchange their talent.

ArchAngel71857
11-30-2004, 08:30 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Because Notre Dame hates black people.


[/ QUOTE ]

Did you post this just to piss me off?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but it's obvious you don't like black people either.

-AA

deacsoft
12-01-2004, 03:19 PM
As the, self proclaimed, world's biggest Notre Dame football fan; I have several issues in this thread to address.

I must say I could see the removal of Ty Willingham coming, but not for another year. This is the first time in the school's history that they have failed to honor the first contract given to a coach. This is a huge mistake for the football program. Some quick points: Ty Willingham was able to turn around the program at Stanford in a few years (which also is not an easy school to get in to, and has a similar low enrollment). He recruited the best freshman class Notre Dame has seen in the past decade this year for next year's team. There are will-be seniors on the team that will have to learn their 3rd offense and defence while at Notre Dame. They're going to bring in a former Davies assistant from Utah that has gone something like 23-2 while coaching that program, but NEWS FLASH: Utah migh as well be playing North Eastern Rhode Island Technical College for the Blind when compared with the teams Notre Dame plays year in and Year out. Three of Notre Dame's losses were by a TOTAL of 7 points. All to bowl eligible teams (and two BCS bowl teams). They played the most difficult schedule in the country. Am I forgetting anything?

They will never lower their academic standards. They are an institute of higher learning. Not an institute of football, dispite what the alumni may think. They can have the best of both worlds. They have before. Lowering the admissions standards is not the answer. They are the second toughest university in the country to get in to for a reason. It's not an easy school to recruit to. Players these days are not intrested as much in the history of the program. It is a Catholic university (along with Boston College the only two Catholic Division 1-A football programs). Plus, the students are required to live in the dorms the 4 all years. It's in the mid-west. Crappy weather, no beaches, no big city, and not the finest selection of females (looks wise) to name a few others. Am I forgetting anything?

deacsoft
12-01-2004, 03:31 PM
There's plenty more. I'm just to pissed off to think about it right now. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

J.R.
12-01-2004, 04:02 PM
He recruited the best freshman class Notre Dame has seen in the past decade this year for next year's team

But Notre Dame hasn't been that successful over this time period, and for a team with national championship aspirations, shouldn't the bar be set a bit higher?

An Opinion (http://www.rivals.com/teamrank.asp?SID=1014)

Another (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=109&p=9&c=4)

3 of Notre Dame's losses were by a TOTAL of 7 points. All to bowl eligible teams (and two BCS bowl teams). They played the most difficult schedule in the country. Am I forgetting anything?

8-0 start, 13-15 since.


2004

Brigham Young L 17-20

Purdue L 16-41

USC L 10-41



2003

Michigan L 38-0

USC L, 45-14

FSU L, 37-0

Syracuse L, 38-12



2002

USC L, 44-13

nolanfan34
12-01-2004, 04:08 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Because Notre Dame hates black people.


[/ QUOTE ]

Did you post this just to piss me off?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but it's obvious you don't like black people either.

-AA

[/ QUOTE ]

Every time you post, I imagine the words coming out of Phil Hellmuth's mouth, and it makes me laugh. Don't change that avatar.

deacsoft
12-01-2004, 04:28 PM
[ QUOTE ]
But Notre Dame hasn't been that successful over this time period, and for a team with national championship aspirations, shouldn't the bar be set a bit higher?

[/ QUOTE ]

I won't sit here and say that Notre Dame has been playing great under Willingham, but what I will say is this:
They brought him in to modernize Notre Dame's offense. The players that were there when he got there were not recruited for a west coast style. He has just brought players in to complete the package and they boot him out the door. I know the phrase "give him time" is not in the Notre Dame alumni's vocab, but that's what he needed. They would have improved next year and the year after may have been contenders. Instead of taking the time and giving him another year or two; they just set the program back another 4-5 years. Looks like some of these alumni didn't pay attention in their math courses durring their time at Notre Dame.

Knute Rockne had a year at Notre Dame that he went 5-4 (similar to Willingham's 6-5) and then went undefeated the next 2 seasons.

esknights
12-01-2004, 04:30 PM
As a recent graduate of ND (2003) I have to say I agree with many of your points. The weather, academics, girls, and location all play a role in recruiting. I thought Ty would have at least one more year to make a turnaround. I am not all that exicited about Urban Meyer either, not that he is definitely going to accept the position anyway. He turned Utah around, but as you said they play a nobody schedule.

[ QUOTE ]
They are the second toughest university in the country to get in to for a reason.

[/ QUOTE ]

This statement is not true. I loved ND, but there were many people there that got rejected at other universities and had to "settle" for ND. However, not many universities can match both the academics and sports programs the university offers.

[ QUOTE ]
Plus, the students are required to live in the dorms the 4 all years.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not sure if you are referring to just the football players here, but this is also not true. Football players find ways to mysteriously have an apartment off campus while still "living" on campus.

All in all, I thought Ty deserved one more year. This year was such a roller coaster of great wins and disheartening losses. It will be a tough transition now so I am hoping for the best.

J.R.
12-01-2004, 04:48 PM
I agree with a lot of what you say. I just get frustrated by the WTF type comments regarding Kevin White's decision, as Willingham didn't do much with the program, lost games ND expects to win and got blown by heretofore unheard of margins in significant, high profile games. Would it have been more fair to give him more time- probably. But did White jump the gun and make an inecusable move- IMO no, especially when a highly popular and wildly successful coach who was a former assitant at ND is now available.

Much of what Willingham was hired for was reactionary to the O'Leary scandal, ala fixing the "tarnished dome". Willingham was a marginally successful coach at stanford, and after a great start at ND, has stumbled badly. Sure a lot of this results from pressure on White, whose track record is less than stellar and whose job security isn't a given, but that in an of itself doesn't overshadow ND's failure to meet its own expecations under Willingham.

Instead of taking the time and giving him another year or two; they just set the program back another 4-5 years.

I really disagree with this. Say what you will about Meyer's record and the level of the schools he has coached at, and only time will tell, but Meyer has been a very successful coach and his teams have featured a wide open passing attack. This coaching change is not a dramatic shift in philosphy like callahan comming into nebraska, so there is little reason why, if willingham has brought in some explosive recruits that meyer shouldn't be successful on the offensive side of the ball with this talent as well. Willingham unquestionably leaves the program in a better spot than it was when he came into the role, and has set up meyer to be successful. Maybe meyer doesn't get the job done, but if meyer is what he is made out to be, ND certainly hasn't been set back 4-5 years by this move.

IggyWH
12-06-2004, 02:12 AM
[ QUOTE ]
No, they don't have a Reggie Bush, but neither do Virginia Tech, Iowa, or Boise State, and all of those teams could obliterate Pitt, BC, and BYU.

[/ QUOTE ]

Old thread but when I see an injustice, I have to speak up. Virginia Tech could obliterate Pitt? Really? I'm sorry... I failed to notice Pitt has won the last 3 years playing VATech....

DontRaisePlz
12-06-2004, 02:30 AM
Different year. VTech is basically having the same year Auburn is having, but with less overall talent. They would grind Pitt down and run right over them. Look how easily they stopped a Miami team that was red hot in the air, Berlin had no chance even in the shotgun. What makes you think Palko would fare any better?

Stand by my comment, regardless of past history.

IggyWH
12-06-2004, 02:46 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Different year. VTech is basically having the same year Auburn is having, but with less overall talent. They would grind Pitt down and run right over them. Look how easily they stopped a Miami team that was red hot in the air, Berlin had no chance even in the shotgun. What makes you think Palko would fare any better?

Stand by my comment, regardless of past history.

[/ QUOTE ]

Same thing was said the last 3 years and the same result happened all 3 years... a Pitt W. It's a shame NCAA is so gutless though and let these teams leave the Big East and we can't settle this arguement on the field. Nice to know the Big East won 2 Conference Championships this year though. Think schools like NC State, Maryland and Wake Forest are reconsidering if it was smart to vote in VaTech & Miami when they're sitting at home this year watching the Bowls on TV?

deacsoft
12-06-2004, 03:23 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I really disagree with this. Say what you will about Meyer's record and the level of the schools he has coached at, and only time will tell, but Meyer has been a very successful coach and his teams have featured a wide open passing attack. This coaching change is not a dramatic shift in philosphy like callahan comming into nebraska, so there is little reason why, if willingham has brought in some explosive recruits that meyer shouldn't be successful on the offensive side of the ball with this talent as well. Willingham unquestionably leaves the program in a better spot than it was when he came into the role, and has set up meyer to be successful. Maybe meyer doesn't get the job done, but if meyer is what he is made out to be, ND certainly hasn't been set back 4-5 years by this move.

[/ QUOTE ]

How about now that Meyer is going to Florida and Gailey is taking the year off? Notre Dame is left with nothing. Damn them, for assuming Meyer would take the job before considering what would happen if he DIDN'T. They are screwed.

PoBoy321
12-06-2004, 03:42 AM
I'm not much of an ND fan, but a lot of the problems that private university sports teams are facing have a lot to do with the fact that it's hard to compete with large state schools when they don't have as much funding (I forget who ND was planning on having replace Willingham, but he rejected ND and went to Florida because they offered him an extra $1 million a year to coach for them), plus they look for big east talent and ivy league academics. When a place like OSU, Miami or Michigan State need a new stadium, new coach, whatever, they go to the state, not to alumni for the money. Places like BC, ND and Georgetown (obviously not for football, but former basketball powerhouse, and look at the avatar, i've gotta get it in somehow) are at a huge disadvantage when good players who just want to play sports can go to some state school for free and do no work (University of Alabama athletes have a graduation rate of 6%, BC, ND and GU all have 95+%). I realize that ND and BC have a lot of top 20 players, but I think that a lot of them are guys who would have gone to those schools regardless of the football program (for example, Brian Toal from BC went to a Catholic high school near me where going to BC or ND is basically the pinnacle of your life).

I forget where I was going with all of this, but basically private sports programs are at a huge disadvantage when they have limited funding and high academic expectations when they're competing with schools that have unlimited funds and low standards.

deacsoft
12-06-2004, 03:54 AM
[ QUOTE ]
(I forget who ND was planning on having replace Willingham, but he rejected ND and went to Florida because they offered him an extra $1 million a year to coach for them)

[/ QUOTE ]

Plus: Florida has a better chance to win next season.
Plus: The weather is better.
Plus: He agreed to take the Florida before Willingham was even fired. (wow, there are still some good secrets out there in today's media infested world)

J.R.
12-06-2004, 03:56 AM
Kevin White, already treading on shaky water, well...he really shot ND in the foot with this one. I love how meyer had a deal done before the Irish even showed up, due dilligence? I'm at a loss trying to understand this move.

PoBoy321
12-06-2004, 03:59 AM
Well of course there are other reasons that he would have gone to Florida over ND, i was just making the point that Florida had an extra $1,000,000 to throw his way every year.

BTW, I was actually at ND this weekend for a wedding, and y'know, yeah the weather's cold but luckily <sarcasm>they have all those hills to break up the wind.</sarcasm>